Which was the best night fighter?

Erich · Jun 22, 2007

chatting with several 425th nfs pilots it appeared to me that the P-61 was a bit bulky, the AI radar frequently was down, the fighter had enough power and manueverability to take out LW bombers but night fighters was another story as they frequently banked hard and were able to hit the deck. At least in the ETO the ID from the P-61 crews was not the bst either as there were at least 2 RAF a/c shot down by mistake.

The He 219A was lets just say it was hopeless for all the effort put into it, even though the project was axed

The Mossie XXX was the ultimate for the Allies

The Bf 109G was the token a/c for earlier 1943 Wilde Sau missions, the Fw 190A to some extent but too heavy with it's arms package and vertical aerial arrays - Neptun.

the P-38 used in the Pacific was the plain ol day fighter version for night missions.

FLYBOYJ · Jun 22, 2007

blu3y4 said:
(i herd that the p-61 had severe flight issues and was reported falling out of the sky thats how it got the name "black widow". feel free to correct me as ive done little research)

You are corrected, now do some research...

blu3y4 · Jun 23, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
You are corrected, now do some research...

thanks for the support..............

blu3y4 · Jun 23, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
You are corrected, now do some research...

hey guess what, i did!!. a certain book i found says the P-61 had enogh major poblems to prevent full production. the fuel system, tail unit and flaps all had to be modified.

"the troubles were all due to the fact that there was so much to go wrong; for example there were 229 design changes to the cannon installation alone between early 1942 and 1944"(Aircraft of WW2)

FLYBOYJ · Jun 23, 2007

blu3y4 said:
hey guess what, i did!!. a certain book i found says the P-61 had enogh major poblems to prevent full production. the fuel system, tail unit and flaps all had to be modified.

"the troubles were all due to the fact that there was so much to go wrong; for example there were 229 design changes to the cannon installation alone between early 1942 and 1944"(Aircraft of WW2)

The P-61 was a very advanced aircraft for its day and featured many things considered state of the art. Even in service many times the turrets were removed to save weight and in essence just weren't needed. With that said any new aircraft especially one featuring new and innovative features will have problems and continual design changes are a continual event in production aircraft.

In the end the "Black Widow" name of the P-61 wasn't given to it because operational issues.

brickhistory · Jun 23, 2007

Erich,

It's interesting seeing different perspectives regarding the P-61. As your interviews with 425th and, I believe, 422d NFS crews shows, they were less than enamored with its performance.

My interviews with 417th NFS guys showed they REALLY liked the Widow.

I wonder if the difference in views was either experience levels - 422/425 were new units introduced directly into the 'big leagues' vs the 414-417th guys who flew the Beau for 18 months or so in North Africa and Med theatres and had a chance to gain experience. This includes the crew chiefs and other ground trades as well as the radar technicians.

Thoughts?

Erich · Jun 23, 2007

I think in this case Brick the ETO 422/425th had only the P-61 and nothing else to compare, as to MTO units they had Mossies and the Beau, so it could just be simply in their minds................the Widow rules ? !

blu3y4 · Jun 24, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
The P-61 was a very advanced aircraft for its day and featured many things considered state of the art. Even in service many times the turrets were removed to save weight and in essence just weren't needed. With that said any new aircraft especially one featuring new and innovative features will have problems and continual design changes are a continual event in production aircraft.

In the end the "Black Widow" name of the P-61 wasn't given to it because operational issues.

thankyou

brickhistory · Jun 24, 2007

Erich said:
I think in this case Brick the ETO 422/425th had only the P-61 and nothing else to compare, as to MTO units they had Mossies and the Beau, so it could just be simply in their minds................the Widow rules ? !

Yep.

I'm thinking that by the time the 12AF units finally got US equipment and there was support - parts, etc - for said equipment, they were just relieved to not be orphans anymore........

syscom3 · Jun 24, 2007

In the PTO, the P61 was used effectively, and generally the crews like the plane.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 24, 2007

Best in my opinion are the Mossie NF.30 and then the Ju-88G.

Both served for all or most of the war and served with great distinction and many other capacities as well.

Both were used effectively, and the crews did like the planes .

CharlesBronson · Jun 24, 2007

Heinkel He-219 by far, radar, range, speed, firepower, ejectable seats.

One pre-series aircraft shoot down 5 enemy bombers in his first sortie

syscom3 · Jun 24, 2007

CharlesBronson said:
Heinkel He-219 by far, radar, range, speed, firepower, ejectable seats.

One pre-series aircraft shoot down 5 enemy bombers in his first sortie

How can spiral painted prop spinners spoil the aim of a bomber gunner when the fighter is flying at night and couldn't be seen clearly anyway?

Erich · Jun 24, 2007

CB the He 219 was trouble from the start clear to it's demise, the Ju 88G-6 was superior in almost every way, the arms though the heaviest of any German nf was reduced to 4 2cm weapons by NJG 1 crews in I. and II. gruppe. Ejection
seats did not operate half the time thus the two crewmen were sent into oblivion and glass with broken necks and on it went, most a/c did not have rear warning radar and were Mossie fodder. I won;t alk about the enignes or other bulky matters but I have listed most in other threads on this bird

lesofprimus · Jun 24, 2007

The Uhu is the choice of the mis-informed everyone... If u think it was the best, go read up on it and educate urself... We have been over this time and time and time again....

As Erich stated, the Ju 88 was the Germans unequivocal Nf....

brickhistory · Jun 24, 2007

And now for something completely different....................

During my US Beau research, I came across many listings in the squadron's histories for UFOs, dubbed 'foo fighters.' Other Allied aircrew also saw weird/goofy things over Europe and most were thrown in the foo fighter category.

Does anyone know of German reports of the topic? A search here didn't get any hits.

(No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Just interested in how two sides might differently interpret the same thing.)

syscom3 · Jun 24, 2007

More than a few B29 crews flying night missions over Japan reported strange things falling under the "foo fighter" category.

CharlesBronson · Jun 25, 2007

Ju-88g is too slow for my taste but...wathever.

And yes I need to read more.

Erich · Jun 25, 2007

slow ....... ? not with the MW 50 injection it wasn't

CharlesBronson · Jun 25, 2007

Oh just a sprint, What was the max speed with that ?

Which was the best night fighter?

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