Which was the best night fighter?

[Glider]

Speed would be important since all attacks at night would be from astern so yo have to have spped to overtake

I agree with this. Its important to have sufficient speed or you will not catch the target, extreame speed would I have thought been more of a problem than a help.

In the books I have read on nightfighting overshooting the target has often been a problem.

 

[Marcel]

Speed would be important since all attacks at night would be from astern so yo have to have spped to overtake

Okay, good point

 

[Soren]

The Ju-88 is the best night-fighter IMO.

 

[Marcel]

The Ju-88 is the best night-fighter IMO.

Good choice but any explanation?

 

[Glider]

The Mossie is the best in MHO

 

[Soren]

The Ju-88 is the best IMO because of its high speed, excellent maneuverability responsiveness for its size, high ceiling and excellent armament detection equipment. Its either the Ju-88 or the Mossie, they're VERY close - the Ju-388J is better than both though, but it didn't go fully operational.

 

[syscom3]

Since the Lancs were flying below 20,000 ft, any comparisons between the Mosquito and JU88 should be done below this altitude.

It doesnt matter what the high altitude performance was for either if there wasn't allied bombers flying up there.

 

[brickhistory]

Sep 13th, 8pm Eastern, History Channel's "Dogfights" will feature a show on night fighters.

I, hopefully, will have a small bit in there about the Beau. Taped it back in July, have not seen any of it, so A) don't know how good/realistic the show will be or B) if I made it past the editing room floor.

 

[HoHun]

Hi Brickhistory,

>During my US Beau research, I came across many listings in the squadron's histories for UFOs, dubbed 'foo fighters.' Other Allied aircrew also saw weird/goofy things over Europe and most were thrown in the foo fighter category.

>Does anyone know of German reports of the topic? A search here didn't get any hits.

I never read anything about Foo Fighters from the German side at all. My working hypothesis is that the Allied crews were confused by the flare rounds apparently fired by the Flak units of Luftwaffe nightfighter bases at regular intervals and in regular patterns to help their pilots locate the bases.

In difficult lighting situations and with no reference for distance or size, the regular patterns flare rounds probably could look very strange to the Allied pilots who did not know what they were for.

Just think back how many of these Foo Fighter reports go something like: "We were patrolling in the vicinity of the Luftwaffe night fighter base at ..., when suddenly a string of bright, coloured disks appeared below us and came up to our altitude at a tremendous rate of climb."

That's just my personal impression of a possible "non-UFO" explanation, so be careful - I might be wrong I think a contemporary suspicion was that the Germans were operating some kind of rocket weapon against the night fighters, but I'd think we'd have confirmation of such a weapon from the Luftwaffe side today.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Erich]

Flak was firing scare-crow rounds.

also RAF crews swore they witnessed jet flyable He 219's as well as Me 163 Komets at night plus the Me 262 was supposed seen flyable and operable during late summer of 44 at night............nonsense but we have the reports anyway of all the above

 

[HoHun]

Hi Erich,

>also RAF crews swore they witnessed jet flyable He 219's as well as Me 163 Komets at night plus the Me 262 was supposed seen flyable and operable during late summer of 44 at night............nonsense but we have the reports anyway of all the above

Roger that The thing is, the "impossible" aircraft sightings were most likely mis-identified real aircraft, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to speculate that the "impossible" flying disks of light might have been mis-identified flare rounds.

But as I said, it's just my personal hypothesis ...

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Erich]

impossible probably but who knows what can actually play during a winter or summer nights eve with bizarre weather conditions, pilot/crew fatigue of many missions. As I mentioned illuminated Flak rounds in the form of 88 and 105mm were standard ,

One to use during wilde sau missions for the benefit of the LW night crews.
Two to blind RAF crewmen of the heavies
Three ........ I'll think of soemthing

 

[16KJV11]

Was it really necessary for the Americans to develop an effective night fighter?

 

[16KJV11]

Didn't the Japs try their hand at nightfighters with the Gekko?

 

[Civettone]

Yes. They tried a couple of night fighters but none were equiped with radar IIRC.

Kris

 

[brickhistory]

Was it really necessary for the Americans to develop an effective night fighter?

In hindsight, perhaps not, for the ETO. Since the British,by agreement with the US, shouldered the bulk of the night fighting duties there, and did a great job of it.

An effective, carrier-based night fighter for the Pacific was a necessity, I believe.

However, at the time of first go-ahead, 1941, yes, it was a prudent decision to develop the P-61 and the SCR-720/Mk X AI radar that went in it (and most British night fighters of the late and post-war periods as well).

 

[Neto]

Ju 88 it is the best night fighter certainly, well this is my opinion

 

[fer-de-lance]

Yes. They tried a couple of night fighters but none were equiped with radar IIRC.

The standard radar equipment for the Gekkō was the Toshiba FD-2 (500MHz, 4-yagi array, range 3km against aircraft with 0.3deg resolution).

 

[luftlover]

this is my first post, and I hope I haven't posted on a dead thread. hello all.

I'll admit from the start I like the he 219(perhapes to much for my good) so if I'm biased toward the aircraft I hope you'll understand. But I will challenge the ulmighty erich in his posting "the he 219 uhu was a dog in sheeps clothing"(and Ive edgucated miself as much as posible on the subgect, thnk you)

I do find most information on the he 219 never mentioning a fault with the aircraft, which is a little disconcerting. but some of Erichs arguements on pg 1 of this disscusion do not make sense

for one he says that the side 20mm caused side blindness. Why would they? They're mounted behind the pilot. admittedly the tracers came close to the pilot, but compared to the mosquito that had 4 MG right in front of the cocpit(can't spell) and the me 110 that had 2 30mm cannons right in front, it cant be worse (the later misq. had them deleated to make room for radar)

2, engines were unreliable, DB 603 powered many aircraft, including the Do 217 N&M, Do 335, Me 410 and Ta 152C. Underpowered, in later models, yes. the never-put-in-production B model was to be powered by Jumo 222(an engine with a troubled history), apparently an A-7/r6 reached 435 mph on this engine

3, later models did have the FuG 218 Neptun radar (not sure on which, perhapes source error).

4, in reference to 2, reliability issues, the first in action were pre production model A-0, which is sure to have issues. the A-5 was the first main production model. AND 6 uhu's were assembeled in the field. how could the reliability be that much of an issue when they can actualy assemble them from spare parts? the uhu was liked by both pilots and matenence crews:quote

5, Luffwaffe non-acceptance=milch non-acceptace. He wanted emphasise on models already in production. this was more timely, and doesn't seem to reflect on bad performance of the he 219 (he also had a personal grudge against henkel). he empasized production on the FW misq. and ju-388, none of which reach opperation.

overal it was faster, more heavly armed, and more manuverable then the ju-88G. The ju made up for the speed issue by having increadible range though. And one of the best reasons it was a good nf was its ability to accept more equipment without effecting handeling/performance. but one argument is that the ju-88 had a rear fireing gun. WHEN HAS A HAND AIMED REAR FIRING GUN BEEN EFFECTIVE? tail warning radar should do the trick(personal oppinion)
the uhu did have an issue with high wing loading, but the lanc flew under 20,000 ft, and it made it quite manuverable. Ex. a stirling had high wing loading and could out turn a ju 88
I agree the uhu in later models was overloaded and definatly not a misquito killer, but I believe it was better then the ju-88G

now that i've lobed my few arguments, i shall now seal the hatch, retreat to my bunker, and await with trepidation the coming bombardment.

 

[Erich]

your stepping in the quicksand man ..........

geez just read what I have written and accept it. The real reason why the German craft is still thought of as the hottest thing since buttered toast is because of it's looks. When I got interested in and before I knew I had a relative serving in the German LW night fighter force I had a luv for the He 219A as I thought the same as you and in fact since 1964 it was the top dog in my book for about 10 years until I furthered my pursuit in Germany