Why did every country have a flying boat ?

[pbehn]

Except during take off and landing?!?

The currents are always there with the tides, not associated with storms. I would rather be in a plane than thrown about in a boat next to a cliff. Elsewhere in Scotland there was a flight lasting seconds, you could see the landing strip from the take off. From Quora
The flights between Westray and Papa Westray, in the Scottish Highlands & Islands, operated by Loganair on the Britten Norman Islander is the shortest and fastest scheduled commercial operation in the world. The total distance covered is 1.7 miles (2.7 km), with the record time being set by Stuart Linklater at 53 seconds.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The currents are always there with the tides, not associated with storms. I would rather be in a plane than thrown about in a boat next to a cliff. Elsewhere in Scotland there was a flight lasting seconds, you could see the landing strip from the take off. From Quora
The flights between Westray and Papa Westray, in the Scottish Highlands & Islands, operated by Loganair on the Britten Norman Islander is the shortest and fastest scheduled commercial operation in the world. The total distance covered is 1.7 miles (2.7 km), with the record time being set by Stuart Linklater at 53 seconds.

I agree with your points as you've been there but that operation on a low tide beach has many risks within itself, hence my comment about insurance. I would wonder how that "sand bar" (for better choice of words) would hold up after a steady rain despite being at low tide. My earlier post clearly shows the hazards of attempting to land on a beach - "do-able" but not the best choice. At least they are operating the right aircraft for this.

I wonder how frequently they are inspected by the CAA? Despite being innovative and probably being the only game in town, this is still a high risk operation compared to "normal" commuter operations.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As an aside -- what would billions of grains of sand do to the landing gear? That can't be healthy for a perfectly landable airplane.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

As an aside -- what would billions of grains of sand do to the landing gear? That can't be healthy for a perfectly landable airplane.

And intake, although the PT6 is well configured for an environment like this, still an issue

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

And intake, although the PT6 is well configured for an environment like this, still an issue

Right, even excluding engine FOD, just getting grains of sand into landing-gear systems seems pretty sketchy. Now let some light sand up into the engine uptakes and let's see what that does to pistons or turbines. IIRC we accelerated TBOs for aircraft flying from the Sandbox, and that didn't even have to deal with sea-tides or whatnot.

Operating off of sand has a lot more to offer for a problem than simple ground-pressure from the tires.

Between the two issues, no, you station aircraft inland, or as in WWII, keep 'em on water. No one likes a knuckledragger, and no one wants a rebuild.

 

[GrauGeist]

Not to mention a civil with constant exposure to salt water.

 

[Graeme]

No one likes a knuckledragger

What about a Knuckleduster then?

 

[cammerjeff]

I

And intake, although the PT6 is well configured for an environment like this, still an issue

PT6's with the reverse flow and the FOD trap found in most multi engine installations (at least in the Shorts 360 & Twin Otters I worked on) would almost be immune to FOD damage, that along with the high wing configuration. I think a Twin Otter would be about the only modern fixed wing A/C I would try to operate off a beach. And I don't think I would do it if I didn't have to. No retractable landing gear to muck up also helps, STOL with reversing props all the better.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

What about a Knuckleduster then?

View attachment 679130

At least there's no retractable gear pulling sand up into the works. Not sure if that helps this plane landing on a wet beach.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The PT6 is a great engine. One of the best I've worked on. I've still seen some nasty FOD'd out ones though. Usually ones that came into our shop for pre-buys from some West African counties though.

 

[WARSPITER]

Relating this to WWII and island beach landings how is a twin or quad engine plane going to go ?

Second, how is a squadron trying to use the same beach for resupply (multiple use per day) going to go ?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Relating this to WWII and island beach landings how is a twin or quad engine plane going to go ?

It depends if the landing was planned or attempted during an emergency. If it's the latter, spin the wheel!

Second, how is a squadron trying to use the same beach for resupply (multiple use per day) going to go ?

Again it's about planning and knowing the environment

 

[EwenS]

I agree with your points as you've been there but that operation on a low tide beach has many risks within itself, hence my comment about insurance. I would wonder how that "sand bar" (for better choice of words) would hold up after a steady rain despite being at low tide. My earlier post clearly shows the hazards of attempting to land on a beach - "do-able" but not the best choice. At least they are operating the right aircraft for this.

I wonder how frequently they are inspected by the CAA? Despite being innovative and probably being the only game in town, this is still a high risk operation compared to "normal" commuter operations.

Look guys. For all the hand wringing about the operations into and out of Barra airport on the beach the plain fact is that it has been going on since the mid-1930s. Back then it was a daily service (except for Sundays due to strict religious observance of the Sabbath in that part of the world in those days. Try watching the old Ealing comedy "Whisky Galore" to get a feel for life there back in those days).

It is currently operated by Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd along with many others in the region and is licensed by the CAA for such operations. Before the pandemic passenger numbers had built steadily to approx 15,000 per year, with 1,400 movements including some by private aircraft. It brings many tourists to the island. It also provides a vital link to the island for emergency medical flights.

It is not some simple strip of sand like some of you seem to believe. It is a broad and shallow bay. No palm trees, in fact no trees at all in that part of the world due to the winds!

Glasgow, in Scotland's Central Belt, to Barra by air takes about 1 hr 15mins on the Twin Otter. At least that is what the scheduled time is. But it could take longer! The options are double that time by ferry & car to the airport on Benbecula, but is only 32 miles away, which again dates back to pre-WW2 and which became a Coastal Command air base in WW2, when it was increased in size and given paved runways. The other alternative is a 5hr ferry trip to Oban on the mainland followed by another 2.5hrs by car to reach Glasgow.

Experience the trip in this video


And a few photos. It is a bit more than a "sandbar".

Celebrations in 2016.

Busy day!

And it is shared with swimmers, dog walkers etc etc. Just watch for the windsock.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Look guys. For all the hand wringing about the operations into and out of Barra airport on the beach the plain fact is that it has been going on since the mid-1930s. Back then it was a daily service (except for Sundays due to strict religious observance of the Sabbath in that part of the world in those days. Try watching the old Ealing comedy "Whisky Galore" to get a feel for life there back in those days).

It is currently operated by Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd along with many others in the region and is licensed by the CAA for such operations. Before the pandemic passenger numbers had built steadily to approx 15,000 per year, with 1,400 movements including some by private aircraft. It brings many tourists to the island. It also provides a vital link to the island for emergency medical flights.

It is not some simple strip of sand like some of you seem to believe. It is a broad and shallow bay. No palm trees, in fact no trees at all in that part of the world due to the winds!

Glasgow, in Scotland's Central Belt, to Barra by air takes about 1 hr 15mins on the Twin Otter. At least that is what the scheduled time is. But it could take longer! The options are double that time by ferry & car to the airport on Benbecula, but is only 32 miles away, which again dates back to pre-WW2 and which became a Coastal Command air base in WW2, when it was increased in size and given paved runways. The other alternative is a 5hr ferry trip to Oban on the mainland followed by another 2.5hrs by car to reach Glasgow.

Experience the trip in this video


And a few photos. It is a bit more than a "sandbar".

I seen the video after the last post - the fact still remains that it's an improvised runway and has operational risks, how long it's been in operation is irrelevant. Yes, it's going to be licensed by the CAA but I can almost bet that there are limitations to their operations that you won't find with similar commuter operations operating from a conventional airfield. With that said the fact that they have a large area to operate from allows take offs and landings to be undertaken into the wind, something that cannot be accomplished on a typical beach shoreline (in most cases).

BTW - I make these statements from a perspective of more than "hand wringing." For several years I managed maintenance operations for 3 Twin Otters operated by the USAF (designated UV-18s) that were flown by the 98th FTS in support of the jump operations at the US Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs so I know "just a little" about these aircraft and what they can do and where they can operate from.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Three quarters of the planet is a runway for a flying boat.

Exactly. Which also explains why the ww2 era USSR didn't have many (relative to the other powers) flying boats… having not much of a navy and fighting mostly over land.

List of flying boats and floatplanes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interestingly, postwar the USSR designed several flying boats.

 

[Snautzer01]

I seen the video after the last post - the fact still remains that it's an improvised runway and has operational risks, how long it's been in operation is irrelevant. Yes, it's going to be licensed by the CAA but I can almost bet that there are limitations to their operations that you won't find with similar commuter operations operating from a conventional airfield. With that said the fact that they have a large area to operate from allows take offs and landings to be undertaken into the wind, something that cannot be accomplished on a typical beach shoreline (in most cases).

BTW - I make these statements from a perspective of more than "hand wringing." For several years I managed maintenance operations for 3 Twin Otters operated by the USAF (designated UV-18s) that were flown by the 98th FTS in support of the jump operations at the US Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs so I know "just a little" about these aircraft and what they can do and where they can operate from.

View attachment 679213

Were you guys afraid the brick in the middle would make a run for it? 5 againt 1 i say unfair.

 

[SaparotRob]

… having not much of a navy....

Still true today.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Were you guys afraid the brick in the middle would make a run for it? 5 againt 1 i say unfair.

It was a football (an American football) given as an award by the group commander for excellent maintenance performance!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Still true today.

True. Mind you, the Brits, with a far larger economy don't have much more. Today's RN of two (mostly CAG-less) CVs, two LPDs, six destroyers, twelve frigates, eight OPVs, eleven minesweepers, five SSNs and four boomers is a far cry from the size of the RN of just a few decades ago. Of course the marketing departments of the RN and is contracted shipbuilders will tell you that each of these ships is vastly more capable than those before, but a ship can only be in one place no matter its abilities. And like all navies, at least half of that fleet will be in port under refit, repair or rotation at any time.

 

[Snautzer01]

It was a football (an American football) given as an award by the group commander for excellent maintenance performance!

That explaines the proud faces. Well done.