Why does the Breda 88 get shit on so much

[at6]

How do you know? I used to be an aircraft mechanic and engines from one aircraft to another will be in various condition. No two are alike. I also was an air crew member in a combat zone. In combat you keep your aircraft mission capable, but no two aircraft of the same type will operate at the same performance because they are not maintained the same as in a peacetime setting.

No two mechanics have the same skills either. I have 20 years of experience in maintenance, but FLYBOYJ can run circles around me (hence why I usually shut up and listen when he talks maintenance).

I grew up around aircraft. My step-father was mechanic, inspector, and a pilot. I ended up working in a parts department for a while and no two engines will be exactly alike on the same plane itself. I always enjoyed asking if the part was for an IO,TIO,or LTIO along with the full serial number of the plane.

 

[pops-paolo]

For any change or redesign you have in mind you have to remember that there are four forces of flight you have to account for: Lift, Weight, Thrust, and Drag.

View attachment 624956

Put very simply, thrust must overcome drag, and lift must overcome weight. If they are not sufficient then performance will suffer, or you won't even fly. So let's say you put a bigger engine into your aircraft, you also have to remember that this will increase weight. So any change you make will likely have both a positive and negative effect (go back to my Bf 109 example).

ok so why was the bf 110 better than the breda 88 lince

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

ok so why was the bf 110 better than the breda 88 lince

Why do you think?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

How do you know? I used to be an aircraft mechanic and engines from one aircraft to another will be in various condition. No two are alike. I also was an air crew member in a combat zone. In combat you keep your aircraft mission capable, but no two aircraft of the same type will operate at the same performance because they are not maintained the same as in a peacetime setting.

No two mechanics have the same skills either. I have 20 years of experience in maintenance, but FLYBOYJ can run circles around me (hence why I usually shut up and listen when he talks maintenance).

Kind words Chris, thank you, it's just a matter time and experience. Never say you a "master mechanic" or "expert" and if we every worked around a Blackhawk I be holding the wrench and flashlight for you!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Kind words Chris, thank you, it's just a matter time and experience. Never say you a "master mechanic" or "expert" and if we every worked around a Blackhawk I be holding the wrench and flashlight for you!

Absolutely, the day you think you know everything and you stop learning is the day you need to hang it up. You are going to get someone killed.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

ok so why was the bf 110 better than the breda 88 lince

Designed better, built better, flew better, better armament. Although it failed it's role in the Battle of Britain, it served great in other roles, especially as a night fighter

 

[SaparotRob]

That's right. When I was in, 90% of the USAF, myself included, were ground support.

Too many civvies forget that every spearhead needs a shaft.

Which is why our troops keep getting shafted. Not really a joke, either.

 

[pops-paolo]

Why do you think?

Stop
you sound like my teachers when they ask me to use critical thinking
but ill look it u only cause I enjoy it

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Which is why our troops keep getting shafted. Not really a joke, either.

Everyone pays attention to the glamour jobs that get you both fruit-salad and a quick death. Few folks pay attention to the grunt-work that gets few rewards, no medals, and usually no coffins. But Americans don't really understand that even in peacetime, servicemembers die serving the colors.

I had the misfortune of helping see to the burial of one of my fellow firedogs, who died in a peacetime training accident. Nobody aside from our base and his family paid any attention, but he gave his life for his country all the same. RiP, A1C White.

Scroll down to 10 Jan 1990 here.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Stop
you sound like my teachers when they ask me to use critical thinking
but ill look it u only cause I enjoy it

Thats the problem with youth today. They don't want to think for themselves. They want everything given to them.

If you want to actually learn something, then by all means. Otherwise don't waste our time.

 

[SaparotRob]

Everyone pays attention to the glamour jobs that get you both fruit-salad and a quick death. Few folks pay attention to the grunt-work that gets few rewards, no medals, and usually no coffins. But Americans don't really understand that even in peacetime, servicemembers die serving the colors.

I had the misfortune of helping see to the burial of one of my fellow firedogs, who died in a peacetime training accident. Nobody aside from our base and his family paid any attention, but he gave his life for his country all the same. RiP, A1C White.

Scroll down to 10 Jan 1990 here.

Very eye opening. Being a city slicker, it never occurred to me to think of wild area and rural fire control. I was surprised that firefighters suffer more greatly from trauma. I believe I saw a stat about prisoners (.8%) under affiliation. Were these people prison "vollies"?

 

[pbehn]

Designed better, built better, flew better, better armament. Although it failed it's role in the Battle of Britain, it served great in other roles, especially as a night fighter

It was also produced in large numbers for the time and was part of a huge air force. 149 Be88s were produced up to 1940. If the LW had the same numbers of Be88s as Bf110s up to the BoB the result would have been the same, but it would have fared less well in the BoB. If the LW had just 149 B88s at the start of the invasion of France Netherlands Belgium Norway and Denmark it would hadly have been noted in the history books there just werent enough.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Very eye opening. Being a city slicker, it never occurred to me to think of wild area and rural fire control. I was surprised that firefighters suffer more greatly from trauma. I believe I saw a stat about prisoners (.8%) under affiliation. Were these people prison "vollies"?

I couldn't tell you. Being a CFR guy in the USAF, most of my job was humdrum standy-bys on uploads/downloads. Of the active stuff, I worked two air crashes, a number of automobile accidents on base, a couple of structural fires, and exactly two wildland fires, neither of which were supported by prisoner gangs. Me and Sal Cardinal would occasionally cheer when we had a working fire to fight ... until we got there.

Now, in California (after I got out) I applied for the CCC, which did use convict-crews building good-time on their sentences alongside regular civilians. From what I've read, they were doughty firedogs, skilled and motivated. I didn't get the job.

My point was just that many US service personnel die, serving their country, during peacetime conditions too. I regard their deaths too as honorable sacrifices for the common weal. Most civilians, however, overlook that aspect.

Sacrifice comes in many flavors.

 

[special ed]

Regarding the awards for lower enlisted, in1965 at our C-119 Troop carrier reserve group, where I was an apprentice, assistant propeller repairman, I was called to Sgt. Roselle's office where he handed me a ribbon. I asked, "What's this for?" He said it's a good conduct award. "Why did I get it?" Since my conduct had been no different than those I worked with, I was amazed. He said, "Because you haven't had any article 15s." Since I felt this was of little interest, the next month when we had a class A in ranks inspection (the first and only in my 3 years there) I had not put it on. Sgt. Roselle let me know with certainty that it was part of my uniform and was required. I still feel funny that I was the only Airman 2nd with a ribbon.

 

[Guchi]

Everything I read talks about how garbage the Breda 88 was from commando supermo to Wikipedia. The war thunder wiki gets in the fun even saying the sm79 would be a better attacker. But when I used it in-game (I don't play arcade I play simulator or realistic) it's not terrible and I have a lot of fun with it. It was such a beautiful plane and it could fly and I think it was adequate
I need an explanation for why it was ssooo bad because as you can see I think it was cool.

Okay, I'll try to explain, simply quoting from Wikipedia (whom you mention):

" However, when military equipment was installed on production examples, problems of instability developed and the aeroplane's general performance deteriorated."

And further:

" It employed a "concentric" fuselage design, with a framework of steel tubes and a metallic skin covering which was both streamlined (having a very small fuselage cross-section) and strong. However, this internal load-bearing structure was very complex and of outdated design, as monocoque designs were starting to be developed elsewhere. The internal struts resulted in excessive weight compounded by manufacturing delays. The narrow confines of the fuselage would require the Ba.88 to carry bombs in a semi-external structure - to the detriment of the aircraft's aerodynamics. "

And

Despite its promising beginning, the addition of military equipment in the production series aircraft resulted in high wing loading and detrimental aerodynamic effects with a corresponding loss of performance, below any reasonable level."

further

"The crews soon found that the Bredas were extremely underpowered and lacked agility"

A plane is really bad if it can't even take off!

"Of three aircraft used, one was not even capable of taking off, and another could not turn and was forced to fly straight from their base at Castelvetrano to Sidi Rezegh.

And finally

"With anti-sand filters fitted, a maximum level speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) was reported in some cases and several units were even unable to take off at all. "

So to sum it up. The Breda was a good enough civilian plane but a failure in its military form - primarily due to its heavy construction methods that left very little space (volume vise and weight vise) to be of any worthwhile military use.

I hope th

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Regarding the awards for lower enlisted, in1965 at our C-119 Troop carrier reserve group, where I was an apprentice, assistant propeller repairman, I was called to Sgt. Roselle's office where he handed me a ribbon. I asked, "What's this for?" He said it's a good conduct award. "Why did I get it?" Since my conduct had been no different than those I worked with, I was amazed. He said, "Because you haven't had any article 15s." Since I felt this was of little interest, the next month when we had a class A in ranks inspection (the first and only in my 3 years there) I had not put it on. Sgt. Roselle let me know with certainty that it was part of my uniform and was required. I still feel funny that I was the only Airman 2nd with a ribbon.

lol, same here. I got a GCM, according to my first shirt, because I'd kept my dumb ass out of jail and showed up for work on time.

Much like the Basic Training ribbon, it was a gimme.

I had seven ribbons on my blouse when I separated. The only one I cared for was Expert Marksman with a star, because I'd earned that. Everything else was just me doing as I was told.

 

[glennasher]

I also had a GCM, no article 15s (though I probably SHOULD have gotten several). Like you guys, I had to wear it on the dress uniform, though several of us had them in my unit. That was a LONG time ago..............................................

 

[Denniss]

The Breda 88 was a fine aircraft for record flights. But add in military equipment like guns, armor, light bombs then the already heavy aircraft gets into trouble.
Hot temps in Africa + air intake filters + some bombs and they required a loooooooooooooong takeoff run.

In short: the aircraft structure was simply too heavily built for the available engine power and lift generated by the wings. In 1942-43 they tried to fix some shortcomings by using the lighter A74 engine, a wing with increased span and possibly a small tail extension but that didn't make it much better.

 

[pbehn]

Well if it cant take, off any demerits as an aircraft are completely unfair. On the plus side, it never needed a ventral turret.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

lol, same here. I got a GCM, according to my first shirt, because I'd kept my dumb ass out of jail and showed up for work on time.

Much like the Basic Training ribbon, it was a gimme.

I had seven ribbons on my blouse when I separated. The only one I cared for was Expert Marksman with a star, because I'd earned that. Everything else was just me doing as I was told.

I ended up being awarded with 13 different ribbons/medals, probably because I spent much of my 6 years in the Army deployed to either Kosovo or Iraq. Out of those 13, the Air Medals is the only one I really care about (I was actually awarded two of them). Other than that, everything else was awarded just for doing my job.