Clayton Magnet
Staff Sergeant
- 903
- Feb 16, 2013
Not Sea Hurricanes, unless I am mistaken
Wildcats in action in Europe 1945
- Thread starter yulzari
- Start date
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Shortround6
Major General
It is and it isn't.
Just like there were about 4 different Martlet/Wildcats with different engines, wings, guns/ammo and different protection there were several different Sea Hurricanes.
With different engines and guns (weights).
Sea Hurricane IA,
250 built, converted used Hurricane I landplanes, Most or just about all of theses were the CAM aircraft. First kill on 2 August 194.
Sea Hurricane IB,
about 340 built/converted in Britain. With catapult spools and arrestor hooks, first went to sea in July 1941 on the Furious and scored a kill on July 31st 1941.
Sea Hurricane IC
Number in question, supposed to be a four cannon MK II wing with a MK I fuselage and Merlin III engine. Some accounts say they used by Nos 802 and 883 squadrons (or elements of them) in Sept 1942 on the Russian bound convoy PQ 18. Wiki says only 2 experimental planes were built. ??????
Sea Hurricane IB/Hooked Hurricane II. Nov 1941 saw 25 (?) Hurricane II Series 2 fighters with Merlin XX engines modified for carrier use.
Sea Hurricane IIC.
Land MK II C modified again account differ widely. With up to 60 being factory built between Nov 1942 and May 1943 and more converted and other accounts just saying that they intended to be factory builds. They were supposed to have naval radios and arrestor gear but no catapult spools.
There is a photo of FH717 that is supposed to it as a Sea Hurricane IIC conversion.
What is not in dispute is that the Sea Hurricanes with Merlin III engines were allowed to use 16lbs of boost and were good for 1440hp at 5500ft. decreasing to the standard 1030hp at 16,250 ft.
If you want simple, you have to do the work and compare which version of the Wildcat to which version of the Sea Hurricane and when.
If you want not simple then keep comparing "generic" versions with type of engine and weight not specified so every body can go round and round and round.
Last edited:
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
I agree.
There is also the issue of external fuel tanks. In the US navy, these were used successfully with Wildcats.
These are FM-2s with pairs of 58 gallon drop tanks. For longer range strikes or long duration CAP, this was quite helpful. Not needed necessarily for point defense.
External fuel tanks are a bit tricky because even if they have them, do they have enough to really use them? (and drop them if necessary like if they are bounced?)
When was +16 boost cleared for the Merlin III? I thought it took a while and happened in stages for the Merlin XX.
Shortround6
Major General
A few were supposed to have been built in Canada, again some confusion, They may have been re-engined, but that may have been going from Merlin XXs to Merlin 29s (?)
There are also supposed to be 8 gun versions and 12 guns versions. Some of the 12 gun versions were supposed to have shown up at Operation Torch aboard the The HMS Biter and HMS Dasher supporting the Americans at Oran. The 12 gun Hurricanes had US markings (stars) to try to keep the AA gunners from shooting them. They would up tangling with French D.520s after the D.520s shot up a bunch of Albacores. The Hurricanes claimed five of the French fighters.
Shortround6
Major General
The 16lbs of boost was ONLY cleared for the Sea Hurricanes. It may have been done in the summer of 1941 when the Sea Hurricanes were going into service.
Some stories say that since the CAM ships were pretty much a one flight only mission they weren't worried about overhaul life. BTW at some point the CAM ships with uprated catapults were cleared to mount 45 gallon (?) drop tanks on the Hurricanes from August 1941 on. I have no idea what that would do the deck run on the Hurricane on a fast carrier, (pretty much kill it on short slow one?) but it seems that somebody in Dec was not aware of the possibilities of the Sea Hurricane?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Oops
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
That totally makes sense for CAM fighters, after all like you said, it's a one way trip. But you are sure it extended to the regular carrier fighters?
Anyway quite interesting. Yeah you definitely need all the boost you can get coming off a catapult like that, plus if they decide to launch one to begin with it's probably already an emergency due to an air attack so you want to get up to altitude quickly.
Admiral Beez
Major
pinehilljoe
Senior Airman
- 743
- May 1, 2016
those were brave pilots!
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 928
- Sep 30, 2021
The Sea Hurricane Saga. MSFU = Merchant Ship Fighter Unit. Production of 36 Sea IIC November and December 1942, and another 24 March to May 1943 by Hawker, NF688 to NF703, NF716 to NF739. Production of 50 Sea I by CCF in Canada in the November 1941 to January 1942 timeframe, BW835 to BW884. Every other Sea Hurricane was a conversion.
Officially Sea Ia, catapult capable, Sea Ib, deck landing capable, Sea Ic cannon armament. Sea II deck landing capable.
The CCF built ones were meant as the North American pool for the MSFU, which would make them Sea Ia but in practice were treated as RCAF home defence aircraft. CCF built either Hurricane I (8 machine guns) or Hurricane IIB (12 machine guns) wings. In August 1941 Canada placed an order for 400 Hurricanes for export, for a varying combination of Netherlands East Indies, China and USSR, shipment across the Pacific, with US built Merlins and propellers. 480 Merlin 29 were supplied. In the end the RACF took over the order calling them mark XII, however 150 of them were sent to Britain but Canada kept the engines. This gave the RCAF plenty of spare Merlin 29, so the surviving Sea Hurricanes, along with the survivors from 30 RAF order mark I transferred in late 1941/early 1942 were upgraded. In both cases they were known as XIIA, having 8 machine gun wings, the 12 machine gun wing versions remained as mark XII *not* XIIB, even though the mark XII was a mark IIB airframe with Merlin 29 fitted. In addition when CCF built IIB arrived in Britain around 149 were given C wings before issue.
There is a complex mix of Hurricanes used by the Royal Navy. The MSFU was Royal Air Force but operated a mixture of regular and Sea Hurricanes, similar for RN units, including standard RAF fighters issued to RN squadrons operating in the Western Desert. Some Sea Hurricanes were retained by the RAF, some Hurricanes were only a temporary loan to the RN, others permanent transfer. The next complication is photographs seem to indicate some official Sea Hurricanes were not converted, or at least not immediately, remaining in their RAF configuration. The MSFU normally records Hurricanes as mark I, encompassing all the standard mark I, the Sea Ia and Sea Ib. Whether a given aircraft is a Sea version can only be inferred if the aircraft is mentioned as being deployed to a merchant ship, or doing practice catapult trials, or doing landings and take offs from an aircraft carrier.
The RAF census states 378 Hurricane I were converted to Sea Hurricanes, serial traces and the information in the Ray Sturtivant books so far come up with 375 marked as Sea, with 38 simply as Sea I, 60 Sea Ia and 277 Sea Ib. Dates indicate a steady rate of conversions from early 1941 to early 1942, with 289 done by end 1941, and another 58 January to March 1942, conversions done at Hawkers but mostly General Aircraft Limited.
From October 1942 onwards the MSFU reports undertaking simulated aircraft carrier landings and take offs and from January 1943 some actual aircraft carrier landings and take offs from HMS Argus and HMS Activity. This was part of a change over plan, where convoys would have a mixture of escort carriers and catapult ships, if the MSFU aircraft was used it would have the option of landing on the carrier. In 1943 the MSFU was wound down, officially disbanding on 7 September 1943, with its Hurricanes probably mostly removed in June and July.
The Sea Hurricane Ic. Firstly Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk IC V6741 III April 1943 | World War Photos dated April 1943, showing proof of at least 1 Sea Hurricane Ic, with hook versus reports of up to 400 existing. Starting on 12 May 1943 the MSFU begins reporting it has Hurricane Ic on strength, in all 7 different Ic are mentioned, not including the photogenic V6741. Looking for what these aircraft have in common finds there were 10 Sea Hurricanes sent to General Aircraft Limited in February 1943, including V6741, nine of them returned to the MSFU in May 1943, seven of the returns were identified as Ic, one as a Hurricane I and one is not mentioned. All 9 were transferred to 59 OTU in June. None are recorded as doing catapult launches or carrier landings so it is an assumption all were finished to the standard of V6741, which is recorded as being originally converted to a Ia, so no hook fitted, the 8 known conversions come from 5 Sea IA, 2 IB and 1 either A or B. A further 3 Sea Hurricanes in March, 6 in April and 3 in May 1943 are recorded as going to GAL but did not return to the MSFU, whether they were converted is unknown, most ended up at 59 OTU later in the year. It would have been straightforward enough to do the a to c and back again wing changes.
What we are left with at the moment is at least 8 Sea Ic existed, none with the RN, all converted from existing Sea Hurricanes, all with the MSFU, and none appeared before mid 1943, a time when the RN was using Hurricane II and Wildcat, with Seafire, Hellcat and Corsair on the way. There is no evidence any Sea Ic were allocated to an RN unit. As one of the February 1943 GAL Sea Hurricanes returned without being modified a stay at in 1943 at GAL is not evidence of conversion while V6741 shows not all aircraft converted to Ic were delivered to the MSFU. The conclusion is there were at least 8 Sea Hurricane Ic, it is unlikely there were many more and even more unlikely any extra Ic flew as such beyond trials after the conversion unless with 59 OTU. Reported Sea Ic N2599, N2630, P3620, V6741, V6957, V7170, W9315, Z4936.
Beginning in September 1942 the FAA is reported to have received 60 Canadian-built Hurricane Mk. IIB converted to have hooks for use in Operation Torch, but could not get enough cannon wings for the already-hooked Mk. IIBs for fitting by 13 MU Henlow before Torch, resulting in FAA Squadrons operating a mix of Mk. IIB and Mk. IIC. So far 14 serials have been traced where the RAF says the conversion to C wings happened before transfer to the RN and 21 after via Ray Sturtivant, plus 2 conversions of a IIB to Sea IIB. Stirtivant also has some CCF IIB to IIC conversions reported serving with squadrons that were deployed on carriers, without calling them Sea types. Note another 86 CCF built mark I were converted to Sea Hurricane I.
Martlet/Wildcat Notes from RAF contract cards and USN record of acceptances.
Martlet I ex French order F-292, requisition 2/E1/40 for 95 mark I (14 mark III serials reported as mark I, AX725 to 38) Wright GR-1820-G205A-2, the 81 Martlet I serials were AL236-AL262 (At RNAS Donibristle November and December 1940), AX824-AX829 (at Scottish Aviation August 1940), BJ507-BJ527 (At Scottish Aviation September 1940 on) and BJ554-BJ570 while BT447-BT456 were allocated to the 10 lost at sea. AL231 to 235 cancelled, replaced by AX824 to 829, so 5 cancelled, 6 replacements. Martlet I imported August to December 1940.
Martlet II/F4F-3/G-36B, order A-1548, requisition 2/E1/40, P&W R-1830-S3C4G. AM954 to AM999 and AJ100 to AJ153, with the first 10 built AM954 to AM963 having fixed wings and later considered mark III, total 100. Contract cards have AM954, AJ107, 109 listed as lost at sea while AJ110 and 111 look like they share the fate of AJ109. There is a question whether AM954 to AM963 used the P&W R-1830-90 engine which helps explain them being redesignated mark III. USN order 68219 F4F-3 production ended in February 1941, with the R-1830-76, order 75736 F4F-3A production March to May 1941 with the R-1830-90, F4F-3 production from May 1941, the first 19 with R-1830-76, the remainder with the R-1830-86 (31 accepted to end June). Martlet II Order, 10 in March 1941 (became mark III), then June on, engine R-1830-S3C4G. Martlet II 9 imports in May 1941 then January to October 1942.
F4F-3A/Martlet III, Diversion from USN order 75736, requisition BSC.1465, P&W R-1830-90, AX724 to AX747, AX753 to AX754, AX761 and HK840 to HK842, total 30. Originally for Greece. AX725 to AX738 incorrectly listed as mark I in RAF Contract Card summary making the mark I order 95. AX741 to 747 and AX761 have RAF Serial Register entries. The import report has 27 Wildcat arriving in the Middle East in July 1941 and 3 more in October.
Martlet IV/Wildcat IV/F4F-4B, order LL-83734, requisition BSC.154 for 150, requisition BSC.7207 for 70, total 220. Wright R-1820-G205A furnished by Britain, given the bottleneck engine supply was at the time it suggests the engines were available from a British engine order, saving on R-1830, plus providing compatibility for the Martlet I. Serials FN100 to FN319 with FN205 to 207, FN240 and FN241 lost at sea. Imported August 1942 to February 1943.
Wildcat V/FM-1,from USN order 99036, requisition BSC N.4, P&W R-1830-86, the USN reports 311 accepted for RN as JV325 to JV636, which is 312 serials, BuNo. 15415/JV428 reported delivered to USN, then in 1943 to Britain. JV325 to 414 did not have USN BuNo. Imported May 1943 to June 1944.
Wildcat VI/FM-2 from USN order NOa(s)-227 (99036), requisition BSC N.4, Wright R-1820-56/72W in 1943, -72W in 1944, -56W in 1945, serials JV637 to JV924 and JW785 to 836, total 340. The USN reports 98+242 = 340 FM-2 accepted for RN, indicating serials JZ860 to 899 were not used. FM-2 acceptances for Britain ceased in May 1945, which is 3 months before FM-2 production ended. Imported March 1944 to August 1945.
USN orders,
Contract 46973, 2 March 1936 became 63072, 3 October 1938, for 1 XF4F-3 (ex XF4F-1 and XF4F-2) P&W XR-1830-76, BuNo 0383
Contract 68219, 8 August 1939, for 78 F4F-3, P&W R1830-76, plus 1 X4F-4 with the same engine, 2 XF4F-5 with Wright R-1820-40 and 1 XF4F-6 with a furnished by contractor P&W R-1830-90, BuNos 1844 to 1897, 2512 to 2538 and 7031.
Contract 75736, 5 August 1940, for 19 F4F-3 with P&W R-1830-76 and 88 with P&W R-1830-86 plus 95 F4F-3A with P&W R-1830-90 and 596 F4F-4 with P&W R-1830-86 and 21 F4F-7 with P&W R-1830-86, BuNos 3856 to 5283, 01991 to 02152 and 03385 to 03544.
Contract 99340, 16 May 1942, for 573 F4F-4 with P&W R-1830-86 plus 2 XF4F-8 with Wright R-1820-56 and 100 F4F-3 with P&W R-1830-86/76. BuNos 11655 to 12329
Contract 99036, 18 April 1942, for 1,150 FM-1 (311 for RN) with P&W R-1830-86, BuNos 14992 to 15951 and 46738 to 46837
Contract NOa(s)-227 (99036), 31 December 1943, for 4,100 FM-2 (340 for RN) plus another 1,423 in 1945 of which 746 were cancelled, with Wright R-1820-56/72W in 1943, -72W only in 1944, -56W in 1945, a total of 4,777 built. BuNos 15952 to 16791, 46838 to 47437, 55050 to 55649, 56684 to 57083, 73499 to 75158, 86297 to 86973 with 86974 to 87719 cancelled.
Contract NOas-1662, N.A.M. 1107 for 3 XF2M-1 dated 31 October 1944, cancelled.
Martlet I production July to October 1940, F4F-3 production 2 in August 1940, then November 1940 to February 1941, May to December 1941, February to March 1942, January to May 1943, F4F-3A production March to May 1941. F4F-4 production November 1941 to December 1942, F4F-7 production January, March, May to September, November and December 1942. FM-1 production September 1942 to December 1943. FM-2 production September 1943 to August 1945. Total production 7,905.
From USN Aircraft performance charts, propellers
F4F-3, F4F-7 Curtiss Elec. CS 3 Blade 9 ft 9 in, Blade Design No. 512
F4F-4, FM-1 Curtiss Elec. CS 3 Bl. 9 ft 9 in, Blade. Design No. 512-ICL-5-15
FM-2, Curtiss electric CS 3 blade 10 foot, blade design No. 109354-12
Admiralty Fleet Order 3186/1943
Martlet I and IV Aircraft Types of Engines Fitted. A.M.R. 2498/43. - 15 July 1943.
Some confusion may at present exist concerning the types of Cyclone engines which can be fitted in Martlet I and IV, due to the large variety of type numbers which may be found stamped on the engine date plates.
2 (a) Engines suitable for the Martlet I : Cyclone G.205A, Cyclone G.205A-2
2 (b) Engines suitable for the Martlet IV : Cyclone G.205A-3, Cyclone G.251A, Cyclone R.1820-40B
3 Apart from minor differences between the engines listed in 2(a) and 2 (b) above, such as ignition harness elbows, tachometer drives etc., the main difference is that 2(a) are fitted with 3 jaw starter shaft dog suitable for an electric-inertia starter, while 2(b) are fitted with a 12 jaw starter shaft dog suitable for a cartridge starter.
4. Engines shown within groups 2(a) and 2(b) respectively are interchangeable with other engines shown in the same group.
5. All engines shown in group 2(b) are fitted with an external oil scavenge line running from the oil pump at the rear of the engine to the sump at the front of the engine. Engines in group 2(a) were not originally fitted with this external scavenge line, but are being fitted on overhaul by the incorporation of Mod. Cyclone/45 so that this line alone may NOT be taken as a criterion by which to identify Martlet IV engines.
Officially Sea Ia, catapult capable, Sea Ib, deck landing capable, Sea Ic cannon armament. Sea II deck landing capable.
The CCF built ones were meant as the North American pool for the MSFU, which would make them Sea Ia but in practice were treated as RCAF home defence aircraft. CCF built either Hurricane I (8 machine guns) or Hurricane IIB (12 machine guns) wings. In August 1941 Canada placed an order for 400 Hurricanes for export, for a varying combination of Netherlands East Indies, China and USSR, shipment across the Pacific, with US built Merlins and propellers. 480 Merlin 29 were supplied. In the end the RACF took over the order calling them mark XII, however 150 of them were sent to Britain but Canada kept the engines. This gave the RCAF plenty of spare Merlin 29, so the surviving Sea Hurricanes, along with the survivors from 30 RAF order mark I transferred in late 1941/early 1942 were upgraded. In both cases they were known as XIIA, having 8 machine gun wings, the 12 machine gun wing versions remained as mark XII *not* XIIB, even though the mark XII was a mark IIB airframe with Merlin 29 fitted. In addition when CCF built IIB arrived in Britain around 149 were given C wings before issue.
There is a complex mix of Hurricanes used by the Royal Navy. The MSFU was Royal Air Force but operated a mixture of regular and Sea Hurricanes, similar for RN units, including standard RAF fighters issued to RN squadrons operating in the Western Desert. Some Sea Hurricanes were retained by the RAF, some Hurricanes were only a temporary loan to the RN, others permanent transfer. The next complication is photographs seem to indicate some official Sea Hurricanes were not converted, or at least not immediately, remaining in their RAF configuration. The MSFU normally records Hurricanes as mark I, encompassing all the standard mark I, the Sea Ia and Sea Ib. Whether a given aircraft is a Sea version can only be inferred if the aircraft is mentioned as being deployed to a merchant ship, or doing practice catapult trials, or doing landings and take offs from an aircraft carrier.
The RAF census states 378 Hurricane I were converted to Sea Hurricanes, serial traces and the information in the Ray Sturtivant books so far come up with 375 marked as Sea, with 38 simply as Sea I, 60 Sea Ia and 277 Sea Ib. Dates indicate a steady rate of conversions from early 1941 to early 1942, with 289 done by end 1941, and another 58 January to March 1942, conversions done at Hawkers but mostly General Aircraft Limited.
From October 1942 onwards the MSFU reports undertaking simulated aircraft carrier landings and take offs and from January 1943 some actual aircraft carrier landings and take offs from HMS Argus and HMS Activity. This was part of a change over plan, where convoys would have a mixture of escort carriers and catapult ships, if the MSFU aircraft was used it would have the option of landing on the carrier. In 1943 the MSFU was wound down, officially disbanding on 7 September 1943, with its Hurricanes probably mostly removed in June and July.
The Sea Hurricane Ic. Firstly Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk IC V6741 III April 1943 | World War Photos dated April 1943, showing proof of at least 1 Sea Hurricane Ic, with hook versus reports of up to 400 existing. Starting on 12 May 1943 the MSFU begins reporting it has Hurricane Ic on strength, in all 7 different Ic are mentioned, not including the photogenic V6741. Looking for what these aircraft have in common finds there were 10 Sea Hurricanes sent to General Aircraft Limited in February 1943, including V6741, nine of them returned to the MSFU in May 1943, seven of the returns were identified as Ic, one as a Hurricane I and one is not mentioned. All 9 were transferred to 59 OTU in June. None are recorded as doing catapult launches or carrier landings so it is an assumption all were finished to the standard of V6741, which is recorded as being originally converted to a Ia, so no hook fitted, the 8 known conversions come from 5 Sea IA, 2 IB and 1 either A or B. A further 3 Sea Hurricanes in March, 6 in April and 3 in May 1943 are recorded as going to GAL but did not return to the MSFU, whether they were converted is unknown, most ended up at 59 OTU later in the year. It would have been straightforward enough to do the a to c and back again wing changes.
What we are left with at the moment is at least 8 Sea Ic existed, none with the RN, all converted from existing Sea Hurricanes, all with the MSFU, and none appeared before mid 1943, a time when the RN was using Hurricane II and Wildcat, with Seafire, Hellcat and Corsair on the way. There is no evidence any Sea Ic were allocated to an RN unit. As one of the February 1943 GAL Sea Hurricanes returned without being modified a stay at in 1943 at GAL is not evidence of conversion while V6741 shows not all aircraft converted to Ic were delivered to the MSFU. The conclusion is there were at least 8 Sea Hurricane Ic, it is unlikely there were many more and even more unlikely any extra Ic flew as such beyond trials after the conversion unless with 59 OTU. Reported Sea Ic N2599, N2630, P3620, V6741, V6957, V7170, W9315, Z4936.
Beginning in September 1942 the FAA is reported to have received 60 Canadian-built Hurricane Mk. IIB converted to have hooks for use in Operation Torch, but could not get enough cannon wings for the already-hooked Mk. IIBs for fitting by 13 MU Henlow before Torch, resulting in FAA Squadrons operating a mix of Mk. IIB and Mk. IIC. So far 14 serials have been traced where the RAF says the conversion to C wings happened before transfer to the RN and 21 after via Ray Sturtivant, plus 2 conversions of a IIB to Sea IIB. Stirtivant also has some CCF IIB to IIC conversions reported serving with squadrons that were deployed on carriers, without calling them Sea types. Note another 86 CCF built mark I were converted to Sea Hurricane I.
Martlet/Wildcat Notes from RAF contract cards and USN record of acceptances.
Martlet I ex French order F-292, requisition 2/E1/40 for 95 mark I (14 mark III serials reported as mark I, AX725 to 38) Wright GR-1820-G205A-2, the 81 Martlet I serials were AL236-AL262 (At RNAS Donibristle November and December 1940), AX824-AX829 (at Scottish Aviation August 1940), BJ507-BJ527 (At Scottish Aviation September 1940 on) and BJ554-BJ570 while BT447-BT456 were allocated to the 10 lost at sea. AL231 to 235 cancelled, replaced by AX824 to 829, so 5 cancelled, 6 replacements. Martlet I imported August to December 1940.
Martlet II/F4F-3/G-36B, order A-1548, requisition 2/E1/40, P&W R-1830-S3C4G. AM954 to AM999 and AJ100 to AJ153, with the first 10 built AM954 to AM963 having fixed wings and later considered mark III, total 100. Contract cards have AM954, AJ107, 109 listed as lost at sea while AJ110 and 111 look like they share the fate of AJ109. There is a question whether AM954 to AM963 used the P&W R-1830-90 engine which helps explain them being redesignated mark III. USN order 68219 F4F-3 production ended in February 1941, with the R-1830-76, order 75736 F4F-3A production March to May 1941 with the R-1830-90, F4F-3 production from May 1941, the first 19 with R-1830-76, the remainder with the R-1830-86 (31 accepted to end June). Martlet II Order, 10 in March 1941 (became mark III), then June on, engine R-1830-S3C4G. Martlet II 9 imports in May 1941 then January to October 1942.
F4F-3A/Martlet III, Diversion from USN order 75736, requisition BSC.1465, P&W R-1830-90, AX724 to AX747, AX753 to AX754, AX761 and HK840 to HK842, total 30. Originally for Greece. AX725 to AX738 incorrectly listed as mark I in RAF Contract Card summary making the mark I order 95. AX741 to 747 and AX761 have RAF Serial Register entries. The import report has 27 Wildcat arriving in the Middle East in July 1941 and 3 more in October.
Martlet IV/Wildcat IV/F4F-4B, order LL-83734, requisition BSC.154 for 150, requisition BSC.7207 for 70, total 220. Wright R-1820-G205A furnished by Britain, given the bottleneck engine supply was at the time it suggests the engines were available from a British engine order, saving on R-1830, plus providing compatibility for the Martlet I. Serials FN100 to FN319 with FN205 to 207, FN240 and FN241 lost at sea. Imported August 1942 to February 1943.
Wildcat V/FM-1,from USN order 99036, requisition BSC N.4, P&W R-1830-86, the USN reports 311 accepted for RN as JV325 to JV636, which is 312 serials, BuNo. 15415/JV428 reported delivered to USN, then in 1943 to Britain. JV325 to 414 did not have USN BuNo. Imported May 1943 to June 1944.
Wildcat VI/FM-2 from USN order NOa(s)-227 (99036), requisition BSC N.4, Wright R-1820-56/72W in 1943, -72W in 1944, -56W in 1945, serials JV637 to JV924 and JW785 to 836, total 340. The USN reports 98+242 = 340 FM-2 accepted for RN, indicating serials JZ860 to 899 were not used. FM-2 acceptances for Britain ceased in May 1945, which is 3 months before FM-2 production ended. Imported March 1944 to August 1945.
USN orders,
Contract 46973, 2 March 1936 became 63072, 3 October 1938, for 1 XF4F-3 (ex XF4F-1 and XF4F-2) P&W XR-1830-76, BuNo 0383
Contract 68219, 8 August 1939, for 78 F4F-3, P&W R1830-76, plus 1 X4F-4 with the same engine, 2 XF4F-5 with Wright R-1820-40 and 1 XF4F-6 with a furnished by contractor P&W R-1830-90, BuNos 1844 to 1897, 2512 to 2538 and 7031.
Contract 75736, 5 August 1940, for 19 F4F-3 with P&W R-1830-76 and 88 with P&W R-1830-86 plus 95 F4F-3A with P&W R-1830-90 and 596 F4F-4 with P&W R-1830-86 and 21 F4F-7 with P&W R-1830-86, BuNos 3856 to 5283, 01991 to 02152 and 03385 to 03544.
Contract 99340, 16 May 1942, for 573 F4F-4 with P&W R-1830-86 plus 2 XF4F-8 with Wright R-1820-56 and 100 F4F-3 with P&W R-1830-86/76. BuNos 11655 to 12329
Contract 99036, 18 April 1942, for 1,150 FM-1 (311 for RN) with P&W R-1830-86, BuNos 14992 to 15951 and 46738 to 46837
Contract NOa(s)-227 (99036), 31 December 1943, for 4,100 FM-2 (340 for RN) plus another 1,423 in 1945 of which 746 were cancelled, with Wright R-1820-56/72W in 1943, -72W only in 1944, -56W in 1945, a total of 4,777 built. BuNos 15952 to 16791, 46838 to 47437, 55050 to 55649, 56684 to 57083, 73499 to 75158, 86297 to 86973 with 86974 to 87719 cancelled.
Contract NOas-1662, N.A.M. 1107 for 3 XF2M-1 dated 31 October 1944, cancelled.
Martlet I production July to October 1940, F4F-3 production 2 in August 1940, then November 1940 to February 1941, May to December 1941, February to March 1942, January to May 1943, F4F-3A production March to May 1941. F4F-4 production November 1941 to December 1942, F4F-7 production January, March, May to September, November and December 1942. FM-1 production September 1942 to December 1943. FM-2 production September 1943 to August 1945. Total production 7,905.
From USN Aircraft performance charts, propellers
F4F-3, F4F-7 Curtiss Elec. CS 3 Blade 9 ft 9 in, Blade Design No. 512
F4F-4, FM-1 Curtiss Elec. CS 3 Bl. 9 ft 9 in, Blade. Design No. 512-ICL-5-15
FM-2, Curtiss electric CS 3 blade 10 foot, blade design No. 109354-12
Admiralty Fleet Order 3186/1943
Martlet I and IV Aircraft Types of Engines Fitted. A.M.R. 2498/43. - 15 July 1943.
Some confusion may at present exist concerning the types of Cyclone engines which can be fitted in Martlet I and IV, due to the large variety of type numbers which may be found stamped on the engine date plates.
2 (a) Engines suitable for the Martlet I : Cyclone G.205A, Cyclone G.205A-2
2 (b) Engines suitable for the Martlet IV : Cyclone G.205A-3, Cyclone G.251A, Cyclone R.1820-40B
3 Apart from minor differences between the engines listed in 2(a) and 2 (b) above, such as ignition harness elbows, tachometer drives etc., the main difference is that 2(a) are fitted with 3 jaw starter shaft dog suitable for an electric-inertia starter, while 2(b) are fitted with a 12 jaw starter shaft dog suitable for a cartridge starter.
4. Engines shown within groups 2(a) and 2(b) respectively are interchangeable with other engines shown in the same group.
5. All engines shown in group 2(b) are fitted with an external oil scavenge line running from the oil pump at the rear of the engine to the sump at the front of the engine. Engines in group 2(a) were not originally fitted with this external scavenge line, but are being fitted on overhaul by the incorporation of Mod. Cyclone/45 so that this line alone may NOT be taken as a criterion by which to identify Martlet IV engines.
Admiral Beez
Major
It's amazing to me that in Feb 1945 the Luftwaffe had 32 German Junkers Ju 88s available in Norway. Clearly if you had to be posted anywhere in the Luftwaffe as a mechanic or even a pilot, Norway gave the best odds of survival.
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 928
- Sep 30, 2021
Actually the stories of Commander Cork having a cannon armed Hurricane appear to be just that, stories.
Z4642 10MU 24-4-41 47MU 29-4-41 shipped 8-5-41 (SS Belpareil via the cape) Middle East, SOC 10-11-41 Undershot and hit sea on night approach El Gamil 6-11-41 F/Lt Richard Rayner HELSBY (39025). Supposed to be with 73 squadron but no mention in the squadron records.
This might be an example of the FAA 'poaching' an RAF Hurricane 1 and/or salvaging an airframe.
Sturtivant in his FAA Aircraft 1939-45 identifies Z4642 as a SH1C:
Attachments
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
So long as you didn't have engine failure way out to sea...
Clayton Magnet
Staff Sergeant
- 903
- Feb 16, 2013
I think if I were in that position, in February of 1945, I would be tempted to just melt away into the local population and start anew. The war's outcome must have been obvious, even for those guys so remotely stationed
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
Probably some of them fled to Sweden. Germans weren't too popular in Norway in 1945
I had an Eagle bud who went through Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) at Sheppard AFB in the late 80s. It's home of the Euro NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (loaded with Europeans). Two guys in his class got into an argument with the Dane telling the German to "give me back my bike". The Germans stole them during the war as they didn't have transportation...
Clayton Magnet
Staff Sergeant
- 903
- Feb 16, 2013
A lot of Norwegians weren't popular in Norway at that time either, at least the ones that collaborated during the occupation. The name Quisling became something of a slur, leveled at anyone suspected of helping the Germans
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
I was in Amsterdam one time back in the 90s and we on our way to a particular restaurant our buddy wanted to go to, we walked across the whole damn city (stopping on the way to help some people winch a giant chest of drawers into their 3rd floor cargo door) and when we got there, they demanded a reservation, which we forgot to get. They asked us where we were from (two places in the US, one of which they liked, and one guy was from Nicaragua). They gave us a table. Right after we sat down (outside) some other people came up. They asked the same question. "We are German". They said, no tables today without a reservation, so they left
Also when I was in the Army in West Germany in the 80s once saw a Turkish-German guy and a French-Senegalize guy get in a fistfight at a train station over the relative merits of Goethe and Alexandre Dumas.
I think some of this animosity has faded since those days, as I didn't sense it so much last time I was across the pond around 2019. The French seemed to be more mad at the Belgians, the Germans mad at each other from rival regions. The regional dialects even seem to be re-emerging in Germany now which is really odd.
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