Wildcats in action in Europe 1945

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

A lot of Norwegians weren't popular in Norway at that time either, at least the ones that collaborated during the occupation. The name Quisling became something of a slur, leveled at anyone suspected of helping the Germans

yep 100%

 

[yulzari]

I had an Eagle bud who went through Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) at Sheppard AFB in the late 80s. It's home of the Euro NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (loaded with Europeans). Two guys in his class got into an argument with the Dane telling the German to "give me back my bike". The Germans stole them during the war as they didn't have transportation...

“Give us our bikes back” is still a traditional Dutch football chant in international games.

 

[yulzari]

Does anyone know of the fate of the Royal Navy Martlets post war? I have never heard of them in UK scrapyards and I presume they were all tossed overboard as soon as the war ended to avoid paying for them. I can’t imagine the US Navy wanted them back. Presumably they were replaced by Seafires or Fireflies.

OT but I do have a recollection of an ex FAA pilot telling me that the best deck landing aeroplanes he ever flew were the Sea Hurricane and Barracuda.

 

[Shortround6]

The regional dialects even seem to be re-emerging in Germany now which is really odd.

Maybe not so odd?

My own theory is that radio and then TV went a way to reducing regional dialects or accents. But with fewer national networks and more compartmentalized video exposure perhaps they people you talk to an a regular basis exert more influence than radio and TV used to ???

Not talking about Germany in particular, more the world in general.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Maybe not so odd?

My own theory is that radio and then TV went a way to reducing regional dialects or accents. But with fewer national networks and more compartmentalized video exposure perhaps they people you talk to an a regular basis exert more influence than radio and TV used to ???

Not talking about Germany in particular, more the world in general.

That's a good theory. The trend in the 20th Century was that radio and TV is eliminating regional dialects (quite notable in Italy and Germany) but I definitely noticed some dialects had made a comeback in certain areas in Germany in 2019. They even have specific dialects for individual towns, like Kölsch Platt in Cologne.

Maybe you are right and the newer compartmentalization effects of social media etc. play a role. I suspect in Germany there is also an overt and kind of unsconscious decision to move away from the Prussian style strong state unification model and revert back to more of a looser Holy Roman Empire / Hanseatic League model. I noticed a bunch of towns in the north have gone back to calling themselves "Free and Hanseatic city of ...." Like Hamburg for example ('Friee un Hansestadt Hamborg,') and have forged very strong trade and social links with other towns in different countries that used to also be part of the Hanse (like Gdansk, Riga etc.).

 

[Greg Boeser]

The pink tassels were an utter failure.

Was is because of drag?

 

[SaparotRob]

Talk about queen of the skies.

 

[RCAFson]

Does anyone know of the fate of the Royal Navy Martlets post war? I have never heard of them in UK scrapyards and I presume they were all tossed overboard as soon as the war ended to avoid paying for them. I can’t imagine the US Navy wanted them back. Presumably they were replaced by Seafires or Fireflies.

OT but I do have a recollection of an ex FAA pilot telling me that the best deck landing aeroplanes he ever flew were the Sea Hurricane and Barracuda.

Some Martlets were acquired by the BPC prior to LL, and so were UK property. However most were probably scrapped or disposed of post war.

 

[Shortround6]

AKA, the FM2, which was a specially lightened version of the Wildcat with a more powerful engine.

It was a matter of degree. The FM-2 wasn't a lot lighter and most of it came down to two changes. Swapping the Cyclone 9 (single stage supercharger) for the Twin Wasp 14 (two stage supercharger) saved about 400-500lbs. although the new prop took about 80lbs of that back. The FM-2 had about 60lbs more armor/protection. The 2nd major change was going back to 4 guns although a number of the FM-1s were built with 4 guns. Also the story of the extra weight of the 6 gun versions tends to blur what was really going on. The four gun versions, if the ammo bins were FULL, were carrying about 80lbs more ammo than the 6 gun planes which cancels out one of the extra two guns. If the 4 gun planes left 130 rpg on the truck they could save another 150lbs.

The extra power was was only from sea level to about 10,000ft. But between 2-3000ft and 10,000ft it was substantial, around 150hp but they crossed over at just over 10,000ft and from about 11,500 (?) to around 16=17,000ft the F4F-4 had about 100hp more.
Things zig-zag bit because the FM-2 had a two speed supercharger and the F4F-4 started off in neutral on the aux supercharger and they didn't engage the aux supercharger until around 8,500ft (?) so you had 3 peaks instead of 2, although the take-off peak was pretty flat.

The Wildcat was no longer the high altitude interceptor (if it ever really was) and having better performance down low was more important.

 

[WAFU]

Does anyone know of the fate of the Royal Navy Martlets post war? I have never heard of them in UK scrapyards and I presume they were all tossed overboard as soon as the war ended to avoid paying for them. I can’t imagine the US Navy wanted them back. Presumably they were replaced by Seafires or Fireflies.

OT but I do have a recollection of an ex FAA pilot telling me that the best deck landing aeroplanes he ever flew were the Sea Hurricane and Barracuda.

All went for a swim or were scrapped within the Lend Lease stipulated 'VJ Day + 12 weeks',

 

[Wildcat]

The Wildcat at Duxford has been repainted in a RN Desert scheme. I think it looks great!

Photo credit George Land. Source New Wildcat restoration flies at Duxford

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

The Wildcat at Duxford has been repainted in a RN Desert scheme. I think it looks great!
View attachment 707233
Photo credit George Land. Source New Wildcat restoration flies at Duxford

Oh wow that's cool! I so want to go to Duxford one day... are the airshows super crowded?

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

All went for a swim or were scrapped within the Lend Lease stipulated 'VJ Day + 12 weeks',

War is such an incredible waste of resources

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Wow, I had assumed the FM2 had a comfortable performance advantage over the Sea Hurricane. Apparently not

yeah I'm really not so sure.

here is the data card on the Sea Hurricane IB. Note top speed is 308 mph at 18,000 ft, or 315 at 7,500 ft with +16 boost.

FM-2, top speed about 312 at 4-12,00 ft, 328 mph at 18,000 ft,

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/15953-level.jpg

British Wildcat VIa data card says 307 mph at 3,500 and 319 mph at 16,750 ft

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/wildcat-VIa-ads.jpg

British Wildcat VIb data card shows 307 and 328 mph at 12,800 ft

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/wildcat-VIb-ads.jpg

So to me FM-2 looks a bit peppier...

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Do any data sheets exist for the Sea Hurricane IIC?
I found this, from Classicwarbirds.co.uk, but it doesn't really mean very much without context.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Do any data sheets exist for the Sea Hurricane IIC?
I found this, from Classicwarbirds.co.uk, but it doesn't really mean very much without context.
View attachment 707405

I couldn't find one yesterday when i was looking. I think RCAFson may have posted a data sheet for it in one of these threads but that may have been for the IC.

That said, those numbers look about right to me. There is also some data similar to this on armouredcarriers website.

 

[RCAFson]

Do any data sheets exist for the Sea Hurricane IIC?
I found this, from Classicwarbirds.co.uk, but it doesn't really mean very much without context.
View attachment 707405

The SH1B data card gives 315mph at 7500ft (16kb boost) and 308mph at ~18k ft. Range is 555 miles at 20K ft at 212mph on ~76IG fuel (21IG fuel allowance for warmup, TO and climb to 20K ft)

Here's a Hurricane IIA data card:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/Hurricane_IIA_ADS.jpg

The performance given is at the 9.75lb boost rating of the Merlin XX. Using 16lb boost, which was permitted in 1942 would probably give the SH2C the performance as stated in your reference.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Which should be close, though Huricane IIC was a bit slower than IIA, due to the cannnons. Sea Hurricane has the arrestor hook and IIRC some other drag and weight inducing elements. So maybe not quite as fast as a land based IIC.

There is also the issue of the dreaded vokes filter, which had a major impact on the performance of land based Hurricanes (maybe a loss of 20-30 mph speed). I have read contradictory things as to whether they were used on SH. If not that might make the SH faster in practice.

 

[RCAFson]

Which should be close, though Huricane IIC was a bit slower than IIA, due to the cannnons. Sea Hurricane has the arrestor hook and IIRC some other drag and weight inducing elements. So maybe not quite as fast as a land based IIC.

There is also the issue of the dreaded vokes filter, which had a major impact on the performance of land based Hurricanes (maybe a loss of 20-30 mph speed). I have read contradictory things as to whether they were used on SH. If not that might make the SH faster in practice.

RR tested the Hurricane IIC vs the Mustang when both were fitted with Merlin XX engines:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/Hurricane-II_12lbs.jpg

The last graphed speed on the middle right is for a Hurricane IIA running full 16lb boost and the far right graphed speed is for a Mustang fitted with a Merlin XX pulling non-combat boost, IIRC.

The SHIIC didn't use the Vokes because it wasn't needed for escort carrier ops. AFAIK, no SHs used a Vokes, although many RAF Hurricanes with Vokes were flown off carriers (as transports).

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

So IIC is a bit slower than IIA, even at the higher boost. IIA was 8 .303 guns? Maybe they should have stuck to that, it seems much 'peppier'.

You can also see the harsh effect of tropicalization here...