WWII Submarines

[stug3]

Images from U-123 dated January 1942 with a merchant ship in the distance. This may well be the CULEBRA which was attacked from a position facing the stern. The photographer on board U-123, Seaman specialist Toelle, was badly injured during the attack when a shell misfired.

A close up view of the deck gun on U-123 taken from the same sequence. Gunfire from the Culebra passed between the conning tower and the gun - the Royal Navy gun crew were unlucky not to have caused more damage.

 

[vinnye]

I would have thought that the reliability problems of their torpedoes would have seriously reduced the effectiveness of the USN Submarines?
This makes their rewards poor for their bravery and skill in getting into a shooting position.

 

[davebender]

Circular torpedo runs
It's readily apparent U.S. torpedo defects were not solved before the end of WWII. We sank a considerable amount of tonnage despite defective weapons.

 

[vinnye]

Just think how much more they could have sunk had they had a good long range reliable torpedo?

 

[davebender]

how much more they could have sunk had they had a good long range reliable torpedo?

With reliable torpedoes results should have been dramatic during December 1941. USN Asiatic Fleet had 29 boats forward deployed in the Philippines. They should have wrecked havoc on Japanese convoys in the western Pacific.

 

[vinnye]

That is why just looking at bare facts is a little misleading. The context of the data is vital.
Those guys in the subs got themselves into the positions to make an attack and were let down by their equipment. That is not their fault. Living in a tin can sweat box in fear of being bombed or deapth charged for long periods takes ahell of a lot of guts, respect is due!

 

[parsifal]

Just think how much more they could have sunk had they had a good long range reliable torpedo?

US Sub launched torpedoes were solved and improved at the end of 1943 and early 1944. In 1944, the notable advance in US torpedo technology was the introduction of a wakelesss electric torpedo. Not as fast as a conventionally powereed torpedo, but untrackable, especially at night.

The other big problem for the USN was the faulty exploder they were using. It took over 20 months to work this problem out.

There were other problems. US tactical doctrine was faulty, subs tended to approach from the wrong angles which meant many targets simply walked away from the slow moving, short ranged "S" class subs. Many of the prewar skippers were repoprtedly too timid in their attacks, breaking off well before they should.

Lastly the higher levels of leadership were apparently fairly ordinary in their strategic management of their submarine flotillas., poor placement, a fialure to identify problems of equipment and training being among them

Japanese ASW training was woeful. It did show some signs of improvement from 1943 onward. In 1941 it was very poor however. On the other hand, Japanese shipping losses were very minor until August 1942. Ther Japanese captured more shipping then they lost in the initial campaigns.

US subs based in the Phillipines suffered an early, fatal blow in the campaign when the supply of torpedoes was destroyed very early on with a bomb hit at the Cavite Navy Yard.


After the fall of the far east, the majority of US subs lacked the range and endurance to be effective. It required the large scale introduction of the longer ranged Gato class subs to solve this problem.

Once the problems were solved US employment of submarines was nearly faultless. The USN had a clear understanding of where their subs could be best utilised (ie sinking the Japanese merchant fleet), and went about it with calculated efficiency

 

[R Pope]

I read an article about a German U-boat crew captured off New York, the crewmen had American cigarettes and movie theater ticket stubs in their pockets. Anyone else heard that story?

 

[johnbr]

Yes I have heard that story but for the east coast of Canada.

 

[stug3]

A surfaced U-boat is straddled by depth charges from a Coastal Command Liberator.

 

[stug3]

From IWM Sound Archive 011745:

On 16 February 1942 north of Crete, in the Mediterranean, HM Submarine Thrasher, after attacking and sinking a supply ship, was itself attacked. Thrasher was subjected to a three hour depth charge attack and aerial bombing. She managed to get away and was lying submerged when her captain was disturbed by a most unwelcome noise:
I was asleep in my bunk about midnight, and I was woken up by something going 'bonk, bonk, bonk' overhead, clearly something rolling about in the casing.

Well, this was anathema to any submariner: something making a noise like that, which could give your position away to anyone listening for you, so I told the Officer of the Watch on the bridge to send somebody down to see if he could find out what it was and secure it to stop it rolling around.

I got a rather startled report back that there was what appeared to be a bomb lying on the fore-casing just under the gun, and there was a hole in the casing which seemed to indicate that something had gone into the casing and which might be causing this noise.

I went up on the bridge myself and went down to investigate, and there, sure enough, there was a bomb lying on the casing – about two feet long it was. I reckoned about a 50lb – 100lb bomb, and there was a hole in the side of the gun casing that looked as though it had been made by another bomb, from its size; and on further investigation, sure enough there was another bomb inside the casing.

Two unexploded bombs needed to be dealt with. Yet extricating them would be no easy task and if the submarine were attacked whilst this was taking place, they would be forced to dive. The subsequent citation for the Victoria Cross describes the situation well:
Lieutenant Roberts and Petty Officer Gould volunteered to remove the bombs, which were of a type unknown to them. The danger in dealing with the second bomb was very great. To reach it they had to go through the casing, which was so low that they had to lie at full length to move in it.

Through this narrow space, in complete darkness, they pushed and dragged the bomb for a distance of some 20 feet until it could be lowered over the side. Every time the bomb was moved there was a loud twanging noise as of a broken spring which added nothing to their peace of mind.

This deed was more gallant as HM Submarine Thrasher's presence was known to the enemy; she was close to the enemy coast and in waters where his patrols were known to be active day and night. There was a very great chance, and they knew it, that the submarine might have to crash-dive while they were under the casing. Had this happened they must have been drowned.


Damage to the casing of HM Submarine THRASHER after two bombs struck her off Crete on the night of 15/16 February 1942. Neither exploded and both were removed by two members of the crew.
A – where bomb penetrated the gun platform. A1 – the position where the bomb was discovered inside the casing. B – Position where 2nd unexploded bomb was discovered lying on the casing, bomb represented by the tin can. C – Petty Officer Gould, VC, standing in the casing-hatch through which bomb from A1 was dragged. Note: THRASHER was at periscope depth, 34 feet, and going deep when the bombs struck her.

The British T class submarine HMS Thrasher under way. She survived the exceptionally hazardous Mediterranean war and went on to successful operations in the Far East, sinking over 20,000 tons of Japanese shipping.

 

[stug3]

Oblique photographic-reconnaissance aerial of the German warships, ADMIRAL SCHEER and PRINZ EUGEN lying in Lo Fjord (Drontheim), Norway. Lying in the lee of a snow-covered bluff, nearest the camera, is ADMIRAL SCHEER, protected by a torpedo boom. In the middle of the fjord is PRINZ EUGEN, also protected by a boom, undergoing repairs to her stern and rudder after being seriously damaged by a torpedo fired by HMS TRIDENT on 23 February 1942. She is attended by the repair vessel HUSCARAN, tugs and a sheer-legs platform aft, where some 30 feet of her after section have been cut away. A Spitfire from RAF No.1 Photographic Reconnaissance Unit was able to get this image.

HMS Trident

 

[stug3]

Forward view from the conning tower of HMS TRIBUNE running on the surface in Scottish waters.

 

[vinnye]

Amongst other theatres, the T class and U class submarines were used in the MTO where they sank vital Italian transports, warships and both German and Italian subs.

 

[stug3]

U-124, her original Edelweiss emblem is visible as well as the Frog that was added by Korvettenkapitän Johann Mohr when he assumed command. Sunk by the sloop HMS Black Swan and the corvette HMS Stonecrop with depth charges, April 2, 1943

The sloop HMS Black Swan

The Flower class corvette HMS Stonecrop

 

[stug3]

K-Gun Depth Charge Projector fired from USCG. Cutter SPENCER

Explosion of a depth charge seen from the USCG. Cutter SPENCER

Forced by a depth charge, a U-Boat breaks surface as the Cutter SPENCER bears down on it

Effect of the SPENCER'S fire are visible in this closeup shot of the U-Boat.
he Coast Guard boarding team were the first Americans to board an enemy vessel underway at sea since the War of 1812.

RM 3/c Julius Petrella was killed by shrapnel from a boat davit that had been hit by friendly fire, probably from one of the guns manned by the Naval Armed Guard on board nearby merchant vessels. Ironically shrapnel from that hit to the davit also holed the Spencer's powered monomoy lifeboat. As such the cutter's boarding team had to launch the pulling lifeboat and that, of course, slowed their attempt to board the U-boat.
The Spencer crewman in the dark coat administering aid to RM 3/c Petrella is Pharmacist's Mate 1/c Daniel Jack Horton.

K-Gun Depth Charge Projector

 

[stug3]

Anti-Submarine Weapons: Hedgehog, a 24 spigot anti-submarine mortar. Sailors loading the Hedgehog on board the Greek Corvette HHMS TOMPAZIS whilst others watch. This spigot mortar hurls as many as 24 bombs into the air at once towards the spot where the U-boat is lurking.

A salvo of 24 Hedgehog bombs in flight.

On the target. A full 24 pattern just fired from the Greek Corvette HHMS TOMPAZIS, seven of the bombs have already hit the water, while seventeen more can be counted in mid-air about to strike the water.

HMS Westcott

Hedgehogs in Mark 11 Launcher on a Netherlands Predator class frigate
The fuze caps have not been removed.

 

[parsifal]

Great photographic recod Stug

 

[stug3]

Some resources:
U-boat Archive - U-118
http://www.uboat.net/all


DB splashes straddle U-118 – taken by O. L. Scholl, ARM2c, in Lt.(jg) Fryatt's plane

LTJG Fryatt's depth bombs straddle U-118. Splashes from his turret guns can be seen as the Avenger pulls away after the attack. Two crewmen can be seen seeking shelter behind the conning tower. U-118 is trailing oil after previous attacks by LTJG Stearns and LTJG Fowler.

U-118 blows up throwing large amount of oil and debris of all sorts high in the air. Lt.(jg) JOHNSON was flying at 600 feet, and says the spray went up higher than he was.

Lt.(jg) HEIM is circling scene in F4F. Note the zig-zag oil streak showing U-118 last effort to evade attack.

USS Bogue (ACV-9)

 

[stug3]

U class submarine HMS/M UNITED underway in Plymouth Sound

At the Malta submarine base, three submarines: HMS UNITED (left) and HMS UNISON (right). Bows of HMS UNSEEN in the foreground, 1943

HMS UNISON, passing HMS TAKU (nearest camera) on her way out on patrol from Malta.