WWII Submarines

[Civettone]

U-124, her original Edelweiss emblem is visible as well as the Frog that was added by Korvettenkapitän Johann Mohr when he assumed command. Sunk by the sloop HMS Black Swan and the corvette HMS Stonecrop with depth charges, April 2, 1943

The sloop HMS Black Swan

The Flower class corvette HMS Stonecrop

What exactly is a sloop? Is it something in between a corvette and a destroyer? A frigate then??

Kris

 

[Shortround6]

The exact definition changed (sometimes back and forth) and at times ships were moved from one category to the other. In sailing days a sloop of war was smaller than a Frigate and called for a lower level of rank to command.

Sloops and frigates were "junior cruisers" of a sort with more range/endurance than true destroyers, at least until you get to things like the Tribal class destroyers. The Destroyer class was a late comer, 1890s and the ships grew 4-5 fold even before the Tribals.

 

[parsifal]

In sailing terms a sloop is a word derived from the Dutch sleop, which in turn was derived from the French "Chelope" 9not sure of the spelling). They referred to small single masted vessels in which the foresheets were inher4ently smaller than the main rig. In the 17th century the French developed the sloop concept for fast blockade running ships with variable rigs really. But they generally retained the idea of small, fastt, lightly armed high powered warships.

In modern naval terms, "sloop" is not a well defined term. And it varies from navy to navy and nation to nation as to what is meant by the term. But in general it refers to small lightly armed warships, somewhere between a frigate and a corvette. Typically they have lost their speed advantage, but reatain relatively long range, and have become mostly ASW platforms...

Sloops vessels were common during the age of steam, but ships of this type were becoming obsolete by the Second World War. The Royal Navy used sloops, revived the sloop as a quick fix to the ASW escort role which had been badly neglected, and used them in numerous roles, including both fleet and convoy escort duty.

More modern defintiions are perhaps, Corvette and Frigates. In the RN, frigates are larger, more capable ASW vessels. I would consider frigate appropriate to apply to ships less than 28knots speed, in 1000-2000 ton range. Corvettes are smaller, and usually somewhat slower, so as to retain adequate range and endurance. Typically they would be 500-1000 tons, with top speeds of about 20 knots, but with considerable range.

Other navies might have different classification criteria, Its a loose categorisation process. No single answer, and no right or wrong answer

 

[stug3]

HMS GRAPH (ex U-Boat U 570) at Holy Loch on the completion of a trial trip, passing by a depot ship. In the foreground are the conning towers of HMS STURGEON (left) and HMS TIGRIS. Submarine P 42 (later renamed HMS UNBROKEN) can be seen in the background.

 

[stug3]

U-boat Archive - U-117 VC-1 ASW-6 2-43


Avengers flying out of Fort Lauderdale, 1943

DBs strike water to starboard of U-117 - U-66 is on the left of the photograph

DCs explode obscuring U-117

U-boats maneuvering

DCs exploding

DBs strike water to port of U-117

 

[stug3]

USS Card (ACV-11) underway in the Atlantic on 15 June 1943, with seven TBF-1 Avenger torpedo bombers and six F4F-4 Wildcat fighters of Squadron VC-1 parked on her flight deck.

U-664 met its end later on 9 August 1943 when attacked by three more aircraft from the escort carrier Card. This took place in clear weather under broken cloud. The first was a TBF-1 Avenger, flown by Lieutenant (jg) G.G. Hogan, which dropped two 500-lb depth bombs with contact fuses in two separate attacks. Between these attacks Lieutenant N.D. Hodson in his F4F-4 Wildcat raked the U-boat with gunfire. Then Lieutenant (jg) J.C. Forney dropped another depth bomb from his TBF-1 Avenger. He refrained from dropping the other when he saw the crew abandoning the U-boat. Eight of the crew were killed but forty-four were picked up and taken prisoner by one of the destroyer escorts. Kapitanleutnant Graef was one of the survivors. The Swordfish emblem on the conning tower of the U-boat was that of the 9th Flotilla at Brest.

U-664 sinking as its crew abandon ship and inflate life rafts.

U-664 POWs were transfered from USS Borie to USS Card on August 10, 1943, the day after the sinking - here a wounded POW is transfered in a stretcher.

U-664's Engineer Officer, Leutnant (Ing) Martin, steps out of a cargo bag

Some annotated I.D. photos of U-664 POWs

More here- U-boat Archive - U-664

 

[stug3]

12 August, 1942- Italian submarine AXUM's torpedo strikes the tanker OHIO on her port side during attack on Operation Pedestal

 

[stug3]

Engine room of HMS TRIBUNE

HMS Storm

 

[stug3]

U-564 is resupplied with torpedoes from another U Boat whilst in the Caribbean in early August 1942.

 

[nuuumannn]

The Royal Navy used sloops, revived the sloop as a quick fix to the ASW escort role which had been badly neglected, and used them in numerous roles, including both fleet and convoy escort duty.

The Flower Class sloop HMS Saxifrage, launched in 1918, is moored on the Thames in London and has been renamed HMS President.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_President_(1918)

 

[parsifal]

I wonder why it was thought necessary to rename her.....

 

[Shortround6]

I wonder why it was thought necessary to rename her.....

Explained in the Wiki article, She became a reserve drill ship and took the name of the previous reserve drill ship at that location, a not uncommon practice in the RN.

 

[Glider]

These might be of interest

 

[tyrodtom]

That looks like the U-505 in Chicago.
I toured that in 1957, they had it outdoors then. At the Museum of Science and Industry.
They had one of the deck guns mounted on a concrete pad, and anybody could operate the traversing and elevation wheels, kids included.
It wasn't as nearly in as good a shape then as is is now, inside and out.
At the entrance to that museum, soon as you walked inside, there was a Stuka, hanging from the ceiling, pointed right at you as you stepped thru the door.
Quite a adveture for a 10 year old.

 

[fastmongrel]

If anyone in Britain wants to see a U Boat get yourself down to Birkenhead U-boat Story - Historic Ship in Birkenhead, Birkenhead - Wirral Its been sectioned so you can see inside, you used to be able to go inside on a guided tour but she needed a lot of preservation work and it wasnt really safe enough for modern legislation.

England - Birkenhead - The U-Boat Story - U-534 - 5th October 2010 -15.jpg by Redstone Hill, on Flickr

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I should be checking out the U-505 in Chicago next week. While my wife is attending a lecture there at the Shed Aquarium. I will head over to the Museum and tour the U-Boot.

Got to see the Type XXI in Hamburg, Germany when I was there. Unfortunately the ship was closed at the time. Here is a pic I took. I took more if I can find the rest...

 

[nuuumannn]

Nice photos, guys. There's a U-boat in Finland as well. Anyone got any photos?

U-124, her original Edelweiss emblem is visible as well as the Frog that was added by Korvettenkapitän Johann Mohr when he assumed command.

There's a great book about U 124 called Grey wolf, grey sea, very well worth looking out for. Excellent story.

 

[stug3]

HMS TRIBUNE in Scottish waters, possibly at Campbeltown September 1942.

Forward view from the conning tower of HMS TRIBUNE running on the surface in Scottish waters.

The First Lieutenant, R Bulkeley at the forward periscope of HMS TRIBUNE. Helmsman at the wheel, messenger on the telephone and a rating.

 

[parsifal]

I should be checking out the U-505 in Chicago next week. While my wife is attending a lecture there at the Shed Aquarium. I will head over to the Museum and tour the U-Boot.

Got to see the Type XXI in Hamburg, Germany when I was there. Unfortunately the ship was closed at the time. Here is a pic I took. I took more if I can find the rest...

A great looking ship, and I think a design with great potential to cause an upset if introduced earlier

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I don't think it would have changed much even earlier. A great design, but there was no chance at turning the tides.