GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Would have been nice if you started your own thread to post this sh!t instead of ruining the original conversation...
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Would have been nice if you started your own thread to post this sh!t instead of ruining the original conversation...
If they'd prioritised nickel for the Me262 they could have done that.
A good answer from Kupernic in post #690:Getting back to the Meteor and that report that Bada kindly uploaded, you read this...
How then did the Mk.III become operational?
View attachment 579288
You're free to do as you will (within reason) but common courtesy on a forum is to remain on topic (as much as possible) and this thread with all of it's detailed conversation was dedicated to the intrinsics of an encounter between the Meteor and Me262.
The derailing was bad enough that the Mods changed the name of the thread - that wasn't a compliment...
What Me262 was being tested in that comparison?
The Me262's service ceiling was well over 37,000 feet and a standard combat ready Me262A-1a (with a full loadout) had a RoC of 3,900 feet per minute.
A good answer from Kupernic in post #690:
"A point on the Meteor's high speed snaking. This was a problem with all the early jet aircraft (Me 262, Meteor, P80)."
"It really has only one solution, the yaw damper."
"It can be regarded as a problem with all jet aircraft and particular with swept wing aircraft. It can lead to a nasty Dutch roll developing as one wing generates more lift on the side opposite to the yaw. This is complicated but one reason it is a problem in jet aircraft is the absence of a propeller which provided a gyroscopic force. The other, and main one, is inertia coupling. Jets tend to have mass distributed in such a way that the aerodynamic restorative forces are less compared to the moment of inertia of the aircraft. The Dornier Do 335 initially had a bit of a snaking problem due to the mass of the engines at the nose and tail distributing the mass like a dumbbell. Jets look more like a Do 335 than say a Spitfire or Me 109 since the aerodynamic force on these single engine piston aircraft looked like big mass followed by a wing and tail on a long tail moment arm. I daresay the P.39 had some interesting stability issues. The other is airframe tolerances. If one wing is slightly different to the other it will reach critical Mach ahead of the other and cause stability issues. Precision and high tolerances is essential in jets as are airfoils that have a high critical mach."
"The first yaw damper was developed by Dr. Karl Doetsch in Germany in 1942. After the war he went to work with the RAE and helped develop a yaw damper that was installed on a Meteor. I believe it found its way into the Meteor F8 as standard."
"A electronic yaw damper had been developed that took gyro rate information and used the derivative to kick opposite rudder. The Hs 129 yaw damper was developed by Dr. Karl Doetsch over the period 1942- 1944 at Berlin-Aldershot. Later "due to the bombing" he was transferred to Travemunde near Lubeck, where the Fighter Development Station was formed, and here he finished the work around January 1945, on what became the world's first series coupled yaw damper. Doetsch first thought of the idea after observing the effect of a misuse of the simple rudder course controllers. If a heading change of more than 30° was dialled into these systems the demand limited and the system became just an angular rate control, giving a damping effect about the yaw axis. He first tested the concept himself in an Fw 190 and later in an Me262. He was interviewed by British scientists, joined the RAE and a similar device was installed in the meteor."
"If you look at this reference it seems that a simple version of Dr. Karl Doetsch's yaw damper may have been used as standard on the Hs 129 anti tank aircraft
http://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS1980/ICAS-80-0.4.pdf"
"See page 2 first paragraph:"
"A new use of automatic control in aircraft occurred in the early 1940's with the invention of the yaw damper. Dr. Karl Doetsch developed a gyro operated bang-bang servomechanism that drove an aerodynamic tab on the rudder to damp out yawing oscillations(U. It was first applied to a German Henschel He 129 attack bomber (Figure 4). The Hs 129 had a small vertical fin and high yaw inertia due to extensive armour plating which resulted in low aerodynamic damping. Dr. Doetsch's yaw damper provided artificial damping to improve its flying qualities."
"The Snaking on the Me 262 could develop above 480mph. With much effort it could often be gotten rid of by repeated flights and ground adjustment of balance and trim tabs. Factory test pilots for the Me 262 said some could fly at 560mph without a problem due to have a well-built airframe and having good engines. Many Me 262 were made in forest factories without jigs."
It should also be realised that the CAE reviewer was being paid to be critical about every little deficiency he could identify. For the pilots who would fly it into combat, it was essential to iron out everything before it was put into service.
The Me 262 could obviously not afford that luxury.