Crimea_River
Marshal
Sorry to hear the masks have not yet arrived. They were put in the post on Feb 20.
1/48 Heinkel He-111
- Thread starter SANCER
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- #602
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
This usually happens sometimes. It is very unpredictable. I have people pending to receive it at home. Thanks Andy 
Crimea_River
Marshal
You asked about the finish thread requirements elsewhere. They are covered in this document:
Modellers Wanted! Group Build Invitation
Modellers Wanted! Group Build Invitation
I will thank you W for that, it is only to have the space that will be in Dark Earth well identified. I think the D.Green, is only on the crosses, part of the side port of the fin and under the AW177 on the same side. The important thing is to know the port side of the central body
I think that with that I would have defined it already.
Do you think that it is worth the trouble to ask in the Schematics section?
IMHO you don't need to ask in the Schematics section because it is for technical schemes rather. Your question would be more suitable for the Camouflage and Markings sub- forum. But it is not necessary really. Here is the shot for the starboard central area. It is clearly seen that there was the Earth Brown at the cockpit area. Then the Dark Green spot at the dorsal guunner station going down towrd the port wing. But there can be noticed the discoloration on the wing surface because of the exhaust fumes. and then three images for the port side. Is that what you need?
Crimea_River
Marshal
Im away from my references but with respect to the placement of the original LW crosses, the standard for twin engined bombers was to place the underside cross midway between the wing tip and the outer wall of the nacelle. On the other hand, I think that the upper crosses were placed at a specified dimension from the wingtip depending on the type of aircraft. I don't have that figure for the He111 at present.
That's true Andy. I agree. But the pic of the crashed bomber clearly shows the top cross applied at the same location the underside one was. It wasn't the standard place for the He 111 marking rather. Unless she had them double applied like the one below.
the pic source: 28th October 1939-First German aircraft brought down on British soil
the pic source: Humbie Heinkel: Dramatic photo reveals first Nazi plane downed over Britain
the pic source: 28th October 1939-First German aircraft brought down on British soil
the pic source: Humbie Heinkel: Dramatic photo reveals first Nazi plane downed over Britain
- Thread starter
- #607
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Thank you dear friends, I think that's how I will work in the sections that are not appreciated in the color photo.
I will base the most accurate in the last photos that you puted, Wojtek.
Later, if somebody finds that we are wrong, then I will thank him for being able to show us a convincing image or diagram to clarify our doubts.
Gracias por el apoyo y saludos
I will base the most accurate in the last photos that you puted, Wojtek.
Later, if somebody finds that we are wrong, then I will thank him for being able to show us a convincing image or diagram to clarify our doubts.
Gracias por el apoyo y saludos
Bustedwing
Tech Sergeant
When in doubt, paint it yellow !
- Thread starter
- #610
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
the German rule L.Dv.521 says that the top part of the cross was painted at 2000mm from the tip of the wing and in the lower part it was halfway between the engine's gondola and the wingtip.
The book consulted is the book by Michael ullmann entitled "Luftwaffe Colors 1935-1945" by Hikoki publications pag.155
The book consulted is the book by Michael ullmann entitled "Luftwaffe Colors 1935-1945" by Hikoki publications pag.155
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Here's the placement and dimensions diagram.
- Thread starter
- #614
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Great info guys.
Estoy muy agradecido
Estoy muy agradecido
- Thread starter
- #615
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
The new masking process to apply the Dark Earth (Vallejo Model Air 71,323)
After drawing with pencil the approximate scheme of the Brits (based on the recent shared photos of Wojtek and others previously archived), I started with my "white tak" to mark the silhouettes ...
With paper and blue tape, I made "another" mega masked (it took me several hours !!) ...
... and the Dark Earth was applied ...
I hope you like the process. I have to get to work, because time is pressing (... and the mail does not arrive yet !!
)
... now, I´ll start to remove everything! and take some photos!
Until soon, ... y excelente fin de semana
After drawing with pencil the approximate scheme of the Brits (based on the recent shared photos of Wojtek and others previously archived), I started with my "white tak" to mark the silhouettes ...
With paper and blue tape, I made "another" mega masked (it took me several hours !!) ...
... and the Dark Earth was applied ...
I hope you like the process. I have to get to work, because time is pressing (... and the mail does not arrive yet !!
) ... now, I´ll start to remove everything! and take some photos!
Until soon, ... y excelente fin de semana
Looking great Luis. However IMHO the fin and rudder at the port side looked different. Here is a series of shots with that part seen...
It seems that the fin and rudder were of the Dark Earth in a half. The top part seems to retain the origin LW colour. The RAF fin flash could have been running from the fin root to the top. Here the enlarged shot of the pic showing her just after the repair.
Later the fin flash was made lower and the remnats of the LW paints were removed too by possible overpainting with the Dark Earth. However there can be noticed a camo spot of the dark colour (possible the Dark Green) at the trailing edge of the rudder. The camo spot isn't seen there in the pic above.
However it might be the matter of the kind of the photographic material used. In the same pic, the enlarged shot of the tail was taken from, the front of the fuselage also shows the darker colour there while the next one to it seems to be lighter. The another shot reveals though that the order was different. First there was the lighter spot then the dark one. In the case the dark spot at the rudder trailing edge should be like the other shots present. It would mean that the entire fin and partially the rudder on the port side were of the dark colour. But the spot at rudder the trailing edge was of the Dark Earth. Here both images to compare ...
Going father ...
Preparing for her starring in the propaganda film the fin flash was removed and the swastik was re-applied. Judging by the shot of the startboard Brits used for overpainting a dark paint that was darker than the one used for the initial camo there. Unfortunately the image isn't of the best quality and it is difficult to state how the camo layout on the tail looked like while starring in the film. What is more it is very difficult to notice the dark spots of the entire camo in the full pic. But if you watch the pic more carfully you may notice something that looks like a dark spot of overpainting area below the swastika. It would confirm the way the RAF markings were removed with. However the Dark Earth colour is very possible there as well. Especially if you compare the tone of the rudder with the one of the light spot on the port stabilizer seen in the next shot. Also it is very likely that the port side dark spot at the rudder trailing edge could be removed by overpainting with the Dark Earth too. But we should remember that the dark spot on the rudder trailing edge could be the trick because of the kind of the photographic material as I have stated it above.
After her participation in the film the RAF markings were restored and the LW markings were over painted with the dark colour The lighter camo spot on the rudder can be noticed.
Later the AW177 got the new RAF markings but it can be noticed that the camo spot on the rudder is still lighter than the entire rest of the fin and rudder. Here are two shots with faded colours and without.
It seems that the fin and rudder were of the Dark Earth in a half. The top part seems to retain the origin LW colour. The RAF fin flash could have been running from the fin root to the top. Here the enlarged shot of the pic showing her just after the repair.
Later the fin flash was made lower and the remnats of the LW paints were removed too by possible overpainting with the Dark Earth. However there can be noticed a camo spot of the dark colour (possible the Dark Green) at the trailing edge of the rudder. The camo spot isn't seen there in the pic above.
However it might be the matter of the kind of the photographic material used. In the same pic, the enlarged shot of the tail was taken from, the front of the fuselage also shows the darker colour there while the next one to it seems to be lighter. The another shot reveals though that the order was different. First there was the lighter spot then the dark one. In the case the dark spot at the rudder trailing edge should be like the other shots present. It would mean that the entire fin and partially the rudder on the port side were of the dark colour. But the spot at rudder the trailing edge was of the Dark Earth. Here both images to compare ...
Going father ...
Preparing for her starring in the propaganda film the fin flash was removed and the swastik was re-applied. Judging by the shot of the startboard Brits used for overpainting a dark paint that was darker than the one used for the initial camo there. Unfortunately the image isn't of the best quality and it is difficult to state how the camo layout on the tail looked like while starring in the film. What is more it is very difficult to notice the dark spots of the entire camo in the full pic. But if you watch the pic more carfully you may notice something that looks like a dark spot of overpainting area below the swastika. It would confirm the way the RAF markings were removed with. However the Dark Earth colour is very possible there as well. Especially if you compare the tone of the rudder with the one of the light spot on the port stabilizer seen in the next shot. Also it is very likely that the port side dark spot at the rudder trailing edge could be removed by overpainting with the Dark Earth too. But we should remember that the dark spot on the rudder trailing edge could be the trick because of the kind of the photographic material as I have stated it above.
After her participation in the film the RAF markings were restored and the LW markings were over painted with the dark colour The lighter camo spot on the rudder can be noticed.
Later the AW177 got the new RAF markings but it can be noticed that the camo spot on the rudder is still lighter than the entire rest of the fin and rudder. Here are two shots with faded colours and without.
- Thread starter
- #617
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Wojtek and mates, the hours, images and work that they have invested in this project that I have done "ours" is worthy of deserving a special prize for all of you my friends. 
It is a work of appreciation, of interpreting the photos, of trying to guess the chronology of the photos and ... it is a particular aircraft (AW177), which had many, varied and repetitive changes in the colors used by the Brits.
There are vast photographs "worse than others", where it seems that it will be impossible to be sure of a final final scheme (prior to crashing the second time and apparently being left behind in oblivion).
I ended up deciding a very difficult and complicated scheme to "define", however it has been a wonderful story of this AW177, and I hope to honor it with the best possible finish.
Some photos after removing the mask ... (and the detail of the rudder)
Seeing how different the color of the photos, with white light (leds) and warm light (the light of the ceiling) ... I opted for go out to try the sun light ...
This pose of her, is to simulate our only color photo we have!
... What caused me another doubt!
I thought the RAF Dark Green was only used to cover the crosses, the swastikas and some German letters or numbers. Now that I see my aircraft, the colors that are still observed on the LW scheme are very notorious. On the other hand I have not made any improvement to the color D.E., it is with the direct color of the airbrush.
... In person my idea of doing the complete LW scheme was to let him see where the D.E was not used in the new RAF scheme captured aircraft ...
The sides and the rudder ...
I ask the connoisseurs: I am correct ?, or should I paint D.Green what is missing? ... It's a matter of weathering so that seen from afar the D.E. and be the only thing used to differentiate it (being two relatively similar RLMs 70 and 71)
Inclusive somewhere in the thread mentioned that the D.E should be considered recently applied paint just like the yellow below.
Pending your comments and visits, greetings to all.
It is a work of appreciation, of interpreting the photos, of trying to guess the chronology of the photos and ... it is a particular aircraft (AW177), which had many, varied and repetitive changes in the colors used by the Brits.
There are vast photographs "worse than others", where it seems that it will be impossible to be sure of a final final scheme (prior to crashing the second time and apparently being left behind in oblivion).
I ended up deciding a very difficult and complicated scheme to "define", however it has been a wonderful story of this AW177, and I hope to honor it with the best possible finish.
Some photos after removing the mask ... (and the detail of the rudder)
Seeing how different the color of the photos, with white light (leds) and warm light (the light of the ceiling) ... I opted for go out to try the sun light ...
This pose of her, is to simulate our only color photo we have!
... What caused me another doubt!
I thought the RAF Dark Green was only used to cover the crosses, the swastikas and some German letters or numbers. Now that I see my aircraft, the colors that are still observed on the LW scheme are very notorious. On the other hand I have not made any improvement to the color D.E., it is with the direct color of the airbrush. ... In person my idea of doing the complete LW scheme was to let him see where the D.E was not used in the new RAF scheme captured aircraft ...The sides and the rudder ...
I ask the connoisseurs: I am correct ?, or should I paint D.Green what is missing? ... It's a matter of weathering so that seen from afar the D.E. and be the only thing used to differentiate it (being two relatively similar RLMs 70 and 71)
Inclusive somewhere in the thread mentioned that the D.E should be considered recently applied paint just like the yellow below.
Pending your comments and visits, greetings to all.
Luis, she's looking great.. I would say you need to correct the appearance of the port side of the fin+rudder . But what way it should be done it has to be discussed.
I have grabbed a couple of shot of her more from the propaganda film. Two of them ( as you may see ) don't show the camo properly. But the two next show that better... please make a focus on the tail there...
I have grabbed a couple of shot of her more from the propaganda film. Two of them ( as you may see ) don't show the camo properly. But the two next show that better... please make a focus on the tail there...
Luis , one more thing I noticed. It seems tha the DE camo spot on the port ( left ) stabilizer and elevator was of different shape from the one you applied.
The initial shape can be seen in the enlarged shots..
and then it was a little bit corrected what can be seen on the plane with the faded camo..
I have edited your pic a little bit for the left stabilizer+elevator. IMHO it sould be something like that... What do you think?
or
The initial shape can be seen in the enlarged shots..
and then it was a little bit corrected what can be seen on the plane with the faded camo..
I have edited your pic a little bit for the left stabilizer+elevator. IMHO it sould be something like that... What do you think?
or
Back to the fin and rudder.. here are shots with the changings seen.
The shot below shows the fin and rudder while the bomber partcipated in the film The left pic ) . Then the second one ( the right one ) the state of the tail after overpainting the swastika there and restoring the fin flash after using her for the movie..
The image below allows to compare the tail after the movie to later one with the new RAF insignia. It can be noticed that the rudder trailing edge has the faded spot of the Dark Earth colour while the entire rest of the fin and rudder was is of the dark paint with still visible traces of overpainting and additional coating.
IMHO the model should have the tail like that one in the edited your pic ..
The shot below shows the fin and rudder while the bomber partcipated in the film The left pic ) . Then the second one ( the right one ) the state of the tail after overpainting the swastika there and restoring the fin flash after using her for the movie..
The image below allows to compare the tail after the movie to later one with the new RAF insignia. It can be noticed that the rudder trailing edge has the faded spot of the Dark Earth colour while the entire rest of the fin and rudder was is of the dark paint with still visible traces of overpainting and additional coating.
IMHO the model should have the tail like that one in the edited your pic ..
