605 Night fighter squadron query ........ ?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Erich, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Gents can anyone tell me what this NF squadron was flying on it's night intruder roles during August of 1943 ?

    F/O Albert Aylott
    F/O Percival James Evans were both KIA over the See after being shot down by my cousin Hans Baer on 2nd of August 1943 while in 4./NJG 3.

    thanks for any info.

    Erich ~
     
  2. Micdrow

    Micdrow “Archive”
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    Not for sure but according to dates here they where flying mosquitos but doesnt say anything about night squadron until 1946 if this truely is the correct squadron you are looking for.

    Source below along with info
    Sqn Histories 600-610_P

    Formed at Castle Bromwich on 5 October 1926 as a light bomber squadron in the Auxiliary Air Force, initially equipped with DH9As, it received Wapiti's in 1930. It continued to operate this type until 1934 when Harts arrived, they in their turn being replaced by Hinds in 1936. It was redesignated a fighter squadron in January 1939, receiving Gladiators in February.

    It moved to Scotland in February 1940, south in May to cover the British withdrawal at Dunkirk, back to Scotland, retuning South in September in time to join the closing stages of the Battle of Britain. It continued to operate from bases in the south carrying out escort duties and fighter sweeps until posted overseas.

    In November 1941, the squadron flew off the carrier HMS Argus to Malta, where it was retained as part of the island's defences, prior to continuing its journey to the Far East. Arriving in Singapore too late to prevent its capture, it moved to Sumatra and then Java. It operated any aircraft it could fly until it ceased to exist with its personnel either escaping in small groups or being captured. However, it is possible that a small detachment of the squadron may have been left on Malta during the transit journey to the Far East as a unit there which began operations on 10 January 1942 used the squadron number in its reports, which ended the following month, on being absorbed into No 185 Squadron.

    A new No 605 was formed at Ford on 7 June 1942, equipped with Bostons in the intruder role. These were replaced with Mosquitoes from February 1943 and it continued to operate this type until the end of the war, moving to Belgium in March 1945 and Holland in April. The squadron disbanded by being re-numbered No 4 Squadron on 31 August 1945.

    With the reactivation of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, 605 was reformed on 10 May 1946 at Honiley as a night fighter squadron. But its initial equipment of Mosquitoes NF 30s did not arrive until April 1947. In July 1948 its role was changed to that of day fighter, for which it received Vampire F 1s replacing them with FB 5s in May 1951, but along with all the flying units of the RAuxAF, it was disbanded on 10 March 1957.
     
  3. mhuxt

    mhuxt Active Member

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    They were on Mossies, E.

    The Aylott/Evans crew were on HJ782 UP-H, an FB.VI series I aircraft - think that had Merlin 21s or 23s and the original (= not the stronger-sparred Universal wing).

    IIRC the mystery was more around who shot up the Do 217 - the 418 Squadron researcher I contacted said his record of ammo expenditure indicated no 418 Sqn. aircraft had even fired its guns that evening, though I confess I didn't subsequently look for a combat report.

    Let me know though if it turns out it was simply a crash - I'll update the db accordingly.

    Cheers and Happy Xmas,

    Mark
     
  4. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    guys thanks very much for the Mossie confirmation.

    well Mark first a happy Christmas to you and yours 8)

    interesting about NO 418th sq. strafe then

    there is always the possibility that Hans and crew heard reports to watch their butts for Intruders, and as they came into land were not focused and crash - landed that big old crate - 80% damage.

    Erich ~
     
  5. mhuxt

    mhuxt Active Member

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    Hi Erich:

    Had a quick look through the National Archives' Combat Report site - nothing from any Mosquito squadron to be found for the night in question. I guess that leaves the possibility that the Mossie made an attack, overshot, and was hit by return fire, but of course that's just speculation.

    Is there any info in Balss?

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
  6. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    Mark I have asked a friend who has Theo's 2 massive volumes to help out but have heard no word just yet.

    M. Balss does mention all 3 crewmen wounded 4km south of Rantum/Sylt.

    Absturz ohne Feindeinwirkung

    Do 217N wrk nummer 1493, no codes mentioned sadly.

    a person wonders as you say: the Mossie attacked caused damage and Baer crashalnded ?

    wish I had access to Baers report.
     
  7. mhuxt

    mhuxt Active Member

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    Hi Erich:

    Let me know what Theo says - I owe him an email and some translations, bugger, will try to do that today.

    If Balss says the enemy wasn't involved, perhaps it was just a crash after all. I wonder where the 418 Squadron legend came from? Foreman has it in the Fighter Command War Diaries, but as above, that seems to be incorrect.

    I don't have the 605 Sqn ORB - one of the many things, along with Theo's books, I'm going to spend money on, once I get my life/career sorted out and start earning some relaible money again. We;ll have to see if any other aircraft reported an encounter.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
  8. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    well my French friend responded with brief info on that date from volume 1 of Theo's massive work. not one word on Hans Baer but the others from NJG 3 are all there with their times and claims of 4 engine heavies. Do wonder though as Theo did say in 5-6 years he was updating the volumes - - why ?, anyway he may have the info stored for the new ones he is working on. everything seems to fit in some ways of Hans tackling the 605th squadron Mossie and enough that there is practically zilch on the German pilot to prove one way or another, given upwards of 12 kills only 5 or so are accounted for.......

    geez how I am frustrated on this
     
  9. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    incredible day receiving info's from the RAF 605th squadron representative today. Almost lost but not forgotten if I may share with those that are interested of the August 3,1943 Intruder mission by the 605th.

    Many thanks for your email.

    I'm afraid I don't have a great deal of information, this is what I have:

    "but the next night the Squadron lost F/O Albert P. Aylott and P/O James
    Samuel Evans when they failed to return from a night intruder mission.
    Unfortunately neither men were found and their names are remembered on the
    Runnymede Memorial, panels 123 and 124."

    Sorry I couldn't be of more use, but the 2 incidents could well be related.

    Does the log book give a location?

    Kind regards,

    Ian

    I then responded with materials from the copies of the log book of Hans Baer and then his replies:

    Hi Erich

    There is a good chance they are related.

    605 were intruding a great deal in those days.

    Sorry to hear your cousin was killed - some very good men were lost on both
    sides - we lost 184 in total.

    ............. finally.............

    Hi Erich

    The location of Sylt does tie in.

    The 2 main targets 605 were tasked with that week in Aug 1943 were the
    airfields of Parchim Jagel which are both very close to Sylt.

    Incidentally after the war 605 were posted to Sylt - they had a fairly
    frost reception as you can well understand!


    unbelieveable in a weird turn of events a Do 217N-1 crew shoots down a Mossie FB VI. now for further closure why upon turning back to Germany and close to Sylt Hans Baer and crew are wounded during a crashed landing but not by return fire of the Mosquito.

    E ~
     
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