RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,314
- Jul 5, 2015
Pro-ukranian view of the events.
View: https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082
View: https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter XBe02Drvr
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
buffnut453
Captain
TBH, I'm not 100% convinced the dam issue was a deliberate act by Russia. We don't know how well the dam was maintained prior to the Russian invasion, nor do we have a clear view of any damage sustained during the fighting. It is entirely plausible that the dam just failed and wasn't deliberately blown up by Russian forces.
That said, there are some circumstantial pointers that line up with it being a deliberate Russian act. Firstly, the timing is hugely beneficial for Russia. Ukraine seems to be ramping up for its big offensive and now this happens. Kyiv gets distracted, resources must be diverted to save lives and protect property...it certainly complicates Kyiv's decision calculus. There's also the fact that Russia was maintaining water in the reservoir at an unusually high level. Perhaps Russian forces were aware that the dam was weakened and were trying to force the issue by natural means.
One final observation is that the dam has been in Russian control for some time now. That makes Russia responsible for its maintenance to ensure its structural integrity remained sound. If Russia believed that the dam was about to fail, the right thing would be to warn downstream populations to prepare. The fact that Russia didn't do so is simply more evidence that Moscow really doesn't care about ANYONE...not its own soldiers, not the "liberated" people of eastern/southern Ukraine, and certainly not the populace of Ukraine proper. Putin and his cronies are willing to burn the world if it enables them to keep hold of the reins of power.
That said, there are some circumstantial pointers that line up with it being a deliberate Russian act. Firstly, the timing is hugely beneficial for Russia. Ukraine seems to be ramping up for its big offensive and now this happens. Kyiv gets distracted, resources must be diverted to save lives and protect property...it certainly complicates Kyiv's decision calculus. There's also the fact that Russia was maintaining water in the reservoir at an unusually high level. Perhaps Russian forces were aware that the dam was weakened and were trying to force the issue by natural means.
One final observation is that the dam has been in Russian control for some time now. That makes Russia responsible for its maintenance to ensure its structural integrity remained sound. If Russia believed that the dam was about to fail, the right thing would be to warn downstream populations to prepare. The fact that Russia didn't do so is simply more evidence that Moscow really doesn't care about ANYONE...not its own soldiers, not the "liberated" people of eastern/southern Ukraine, and certainly not the populace of Ukraine proper. Putin and his cronies are willing to burn the world if it enables them to keep hold of the reins of power.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
"At 02:50, Russian terrorists carried out an internal detonation of the structures of the Kakhovskaya HPP. About 80 settlements are in the zone of flooding," Zelenskiy said after an emergency meeting of senior officials.
A Ukrainian military spokesperson said Russia's aim was to prevent Ukrainian troops crossing the Dnipro River to attack Russian occupying forces.
Russia said Ukraine sabotaged the dam to cut off water supplies to Crimea and to distract attention from its faltering counteroffensive.
"We can state unequivocally that we are talking about deliberate sabotage by the Ukrainian side," Kremlin Spokesman Peskov told reporters.
Earlier some Russian-installed officials said no attack had taken place. Vladimir Rogov, a Russian installed official in Zaporizhzhia, said the dam collapsed due to earlier damage and the pressure of the water. Russia's state news agency TASS carried a report to the same effect.
Nova Kakhovka dam attack: what do we know so far?
A huge Soviet-era dam on the Dnipro River that separates Russian and Ukrainian forces in southern Ukraine was breached on Tuesday, unleashing floodwaters across the war zone.
www.reuters.com
I don't think we'll know who did what, if anything, until the Ukrainians recapture the area. I definitely agree that the timing points to a deliberate act by Russians, but at best that's circumstantial evidence.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,314
- Jul 5, 2015
The elephant in the room is:
Why the Russians allowed the Dam to get to record highs right before it was destroyed?
The Dam is maxed-out and it gets destroyed as soon as Ukraine starts a counter offensive. What a coincidence!
Why the Russians allowed the Dam to get to record highs right before it was destroyed?
The Dam is maxed-out and it gets destroyed as soon as Ukraine starts a counter offensive. What a coincidence!
Leopards everywhere - Tractors "disguised" as Leopards. The Tractor Brigade will be pissed
Tendar claims this action was from a Ka-52 crew so "experts" at work .......
View: https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1666096685112762369
View: https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1666106391025664005
Tendar claims this action was from a Ka-52 crew so "experts" at work .......
View: https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1666096685112762369
View: https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1666106391025664005
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,314
- Jul 5, 2015
Why scrap when you can recycle and use them to further bleed out your enemy…I second that. Notice we are talking old Hornets here, not the newer superhornets.
Retired RAAF fighter jets could be sent to Ukraine
Australia, the US and Ukraine are discussing sending 41 Royal Australian Air Force F/A-18 Hornets to Kyiv, rather than sending them to the scrapheap as planned.www.afr.com
However that should only be the start ... Canada, Finland, Spain should follow pace, all of them have some F-18 that are about to be retired soon.
E.g.:
Spain finalizes $2.1 billion deal for 20 Eurofighters to replace old F-18s
Eurofighter had something of a lock on replacing the oldest of Spain's American-made planes, stationed on the popular tourist island of Gran Canaria. The government in Madrid had cleared the purchase in late 2021.www.defensenews.com
Why scrap if you can recycle. And why recycle if you can reuse.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
The dam episode could prove to be interesting.
If it was a deliberate attack to destroy the dam, then it could be viewed as a "war crime".
After the WW2 attack on the Ruhr dams by the RAF, and the subsequent post-war analysis of the damage, disruption and loss of life etc, it was ruled that attacks on "water targets", including dams, would not be allowed, being "illegal" and a crime.
If it was a deliberate attack to destroy the dam, then it could be viewed as a "war crime".
After the WW2 attack on the Ruhr dams by the RAF, and the subsequent post-war analysis of the damage, disruption and loss of life etc, it was ruled that attacks on "water targets", including dams, would not be allowed, being "illegal" and a crime.
Russian defense installations on the southern bank of the dnepr should be flooded ~1km inland. maybe there are some new opportunities rising here. Do the Ukrainians have small and fast watercraft like hovercraft or swamp boats? They surely have to wait for the river to calm down and clear of most of the garbage/trash/trees
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 40,575
- Mar 26, 2007
Ukr are not stupid. They have seen this dick move for miles. Cant really do anything about it because it is the beginning of scorched earth retrating tactics.
The way retreating sub soviets do.
Badly led
Badly fed and will die. Occupying badly kept graves. Over there this real estate. Nobody seems to miss.
Warspite63
Senior Airman
- 382
- Dec 8, 2022
I mean, SERIOUSLY???? On what planet is that a tank? Fire at farmers, claim a great victory ... head home for more vodka........
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,314
- Jul 5, 2015
fubar57
General
Because I can't give more than one.....
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,314
- Jul 5, 2015
manta22
Banned
So "Baghdad Bob" is alive and well in Novaya Kakhovka'
Glider
Captain
Thanks, I thought it was something like that, which says a lot
Admiral Beez
Captain
On the strategic side the B-1 and Tu-160 should continue swinging into the 2030s, but with the F-111, F-14 and soon Tornado being retired, I wonder if this Ukraine war will be one of the last where variable-sweep (swing) wing tactical aircraft like the Sukhoi Su-24 play a role.
I suppose some old MiG-23s still in service in Angola might show up in some future third world dust-up.
I suppose some old MiG-23s still in service in Angola might show up in some future third world dust-up.
Last edited:
Glider
Captain
A few personal thoughts about the dam: -
a) If Russia did blow the dam, then it highlights to me that they have little faith in their ability to defend the area. It is such an important piece of infrastructure, you would want to keep it in working order or at least in situ, if you believed you were going to keep the area.
b) Now don't all jump on me when I say this but I have a question mark over if the dam was blown. The BBC have just shown a photo of the dam taken two days before the catastrophic failure and this clearly shows that there was a much smaller breach of the dam already in place, and a good flow of water going through it. This would have significantly weakened the dam making it more likely to fail. That said the responsibility for the failure is 100% Russia's as if they hadn't invaded, then there wouldn't have been a breach.
Glider
Captain
They may want to explain how Ukraine broke through the Russian lines, made it a good number of miles behind their lines, were able to get on the bridge, place a lot of explosives in just the right place, and make it all the way home again without being spotted.Confirmation that it was the Russians
"We strongly reject the accusation of blowing up the Kakhovka HPP. This was a deliberate sabotage by Kyiv. One of its goals is to deprive Crimea of water, the supply of water to the North Crimean Canal is reduced," Russian Press Secretary Peskov said.
