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Bullockracing said:Wow, great discussion here.
If you consider that by the time the Ta 152 and B-29 were and could have been, respectively, operational in the ETO, the Allies had ground radar stations on the continent, and that allowed the marauding Allied fighter aircraft to catch the 262 on takeoff and landing. If the Ta 152 was such a threat, the same thing would have ended up happening to it as well.
The Ta 152 was a superior plane to the vast majority of all fighter aircraft of the war, but would not be knocking B-29s out of the sky any better than the 190/109 were knocking the B-17/24 down.
syscom3 said:Ive never heard of the allies using ground radar to watch the german fighters take off.
syscom3 said:read other threads on how effective the 109's and 190's were if they caught the b17's and 24's without fighter escort.
Glider said:If I was planning a raid you can be sure that I would have the TA152 bases covered from the moment that the bombers are likely to appear. As the bombers approached there would be escorts well in front of the raid at an altitude to intercept the fighters on the way up.
syscom3 said:Suppose the Ta-152 is at 40,000 feet and going 450 mph, and he dives. Wouldnt he get perislously close to losing it due to sonic airflow buffeting and then would have to throttle back (and slow down)?
Udet said:Marshall Stack:
"Also, I was suprised that no one else brought up the DO 335 before you."
I did, a long time ago. Responses of course followed paths similar to that you can observe on mr. syscom´s response here:
"The D335 was not operational when the war ended."
Another one of the very interesting anomalies one can detect in some allied guys:
to predict an absolute superiority of allied planes which did not see service in a war theather or -even better- that saw no service of any kind, while trying to minimize and put down German hardware which got proven in combat. (i.e. Ta 152 and Me 262)
Just take another look at Jabberwocky´s happy list: he includes the two "squadrons" of Gloster Meteors...planes that strangely no German pilot ever had the chance to find in combat, planes that were never reported as seen by Flak gunners; planes that oddly scored no victories whatsoever against German planes. Two "squadrons" that were happily -and gladly- kept away from where the fire and blood were.
You know it´s a British Playmate syndrome: real good looking but pretty much useless.
One can continue wondering where all those magnificent Spitfires were located during the last 20 months of the war. One can review the accounts of units and pilots in Reichsverteidigung tasks, you can review real long lists of claims filed by German pilots, say, during the whole 1944 and one thing can be noticed: the bulk of the fight was being carried out by the guys of the 8th and 15th USAAF.
Can someone get me a green tea cup here? Gentlemen, check lists of claims and please when you find a Spitfire, Typhoon or Tempest claimed shot down in combat then please highlight the claim -with bright color-; claims of British planes in the last year of the war are as scarce as common sense is in the present-day world.
Finally, mr. Glider, I do not have the necessary time to give a proper response the last words you just discharged here. Have tea and cookies at hand, for it will be very interesting. Now, i´m off to class.
Cheers!
Yes - and that's why you see on many charts propeller-driven aircraft starting to loose efficency at there altitudessyscom3 said:Flyboy, I know this question probably belongs in another thread, but when youre at 30,000 ft and above, traveling at 450 mph, isnt the airflow at the propellor tips and over the wings up in the sub-mach range?
Yes and depending to the parameters the buffet may slow him down or start to shake the plane apart. The regime you're describing is exactly what happened to early P-38s....syscom3 said:Suppose the Ta-152 is at 40,000 feet and going 450 mph, and he dives. Wouldnt he get perislously close to losing it due to sonic airflow buffeting and then would have to throttle back (and slow down)?
I presume you're talking Mig-15 - it was the "next generation" of jet fighter.Soundbreaker Welch? said:The Mig was better than the 262 or am I wrong?
FLYBOYJ said:Yes and depending to the parameters the buffet may slow him down or start to shake the plane apart. The regime you're describing is exactly what happened to early P-38s....
And at a dive from 40,000 feet, theoretically its possible, but I think its wings would come off first...Soren said:The Ta-152 would have to go ballistic for something like that to occur FLYBOYJ, at something like in excess of 900 km/h at the very least.
Absolutely possible, but my point is that at 900 km/h the speed advantage enjoyed by the Ta-152 would be enormous compared to its intended victims below.
red admiral said:Re 2005s over Italy did this quite often. There was minimal buffeting up to 980kph, probably possible for 1000kph+. Attacks on B-17s below. Escorting P-39s had no chance of engaging them.
The 980 Km/h dive was obtained in the first day of trhee days of dives performed by Commander de Prato in a single pre-production fighter (MM096105) to test the modifications made to the tail section of the aircraft after aeroelastic problems were reported by the operative pilots in the pre-production aircrafts.syscom3 said:The airspeed indicators of those years were quite unreliable at speeds high in the mach range. If a pilot said his airspeed indicator said 600 mph in a dive, then it was an inaccurate reading.