Best Aircraft in many different roles

[plan_D]

True but I'm sure LG can safely hold up the Lightning. Gemhorse holds up the Mosquito, and all the new members can be added in somewhere like...something that's add in, to the bigger picture.

 

[cheddar cheese]

But wmaxt is the 3rd of the "3 lightning muskateers" If I may call him that

 

[plan_D]

A bit behind aren't you? Civilisation has moved far on from muskets...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

now we're on to the heavy stuff, like air rifles

 

[plan_D]

Exactly and elastic bands with pencils.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and screwed up bits of paper!!!!

 

[wmaxt]

But wmaxt is the 3rd of the "3 lightning muskateers" If I may call him that

That's fine, it's nice to have friends against the odds. The 20mm makes a good musket, don't you think?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

not as good as 4x20mm...............

 

[wmaxt]

Thanks wmaxt, it's always puzzled me why it was discontinued.....bloody shame to scrap such fine aircraft as they did, if only they had known that 50-60 years on, they'd be worth a million or two, restored....

I agree that they should have continued development, but maybe it had reached ts peak. It was designed in 1937 in response to Specification X-608. It first flew on January 27, 1939. The F4U and the P-51 were newer fighters and they were cheaper to make. People often tout the Allisons, but they had more than their fair share of problems, especially in the P-38. From one of my articles:

"Every Lightning in the European theater had at least one set of engines changed during it's service life. The Allisons were problematic, but the redundancy of 2 engines helped to bring back many aircraft. The problem with the Allison engines were not entirely due to the design of the engines. The cooling system that was initially installed was not adequate and the lack of cowl flaps exasperated the problem. The original intercooler system led the airflow from the turbosuperchargers to the wingtip and back, which was a less than ideal situation. Later models resolved this problem. Temperatures at high altitudes above Europe were often 40 degrees below zero, which did not allow the engines to warm properly for correct oil cooling. Additionally, at the fuel octane and lead separated at that temperature, causing valve failures and backfires that would fire through the intercooler ducts, sometimes warping the leading edge of the wing. Engine fires were also experienced due to broken connecting rods. These problems were corrected for the most part in later models with the changes made to the intercoolers and the addition of the rear ducts."

The P-38 also had no cockpit heating or cooling, which meant the pilot froze or fried, depending on the climate and altitude.

Don't get me wrong, I love the P-38 and it did a great job in many roles. But I am not so sure that it would have been a great post-war airplane.

I also have an affection for the Mosquito, so I couldn't pick a "Which one is better" side. They both were superb airplanes that did a great job.

The P-38L cured all those issues. It's true the early P-38s had issues, some quite bad - fuel was a big issue the TEL (tetra-ethel lead to boost octane was a major problem and so was the standard proceedure of med throttle/fine pich props/no boost settings for cruise causing cold oil, more fuel consumption and frozen turbo regulators, destroying engines at altitude. Lindberg showedthat Low throttle/high boost/corse pitch even gave better fuel consumption. Also mods to engine/systems and some automatic controls ensured it would not happen anymore.

You could get one after the war for $1,200.

 

[Gemhorse]

Thanks, evangilder, that more than explains this niggling query about the P-38 and although I openly express I am not as clued-up on them as some other aircraft, I still have great respect for them and their 'Tour of Duty'....Perhaps one could conclude that by War's end, they had by far fulfilled their duty, and I remain saddened by their thoughtless demise to the scrapheap...but they still had more development potential I feel, as you agree....
That was an inspired piece you've written there, and I note what you say, that others such as wmaxt offer much and need to know what us others have learned...I've certainly learned some, hashing-it out with LG !!!!...

I merely note that by the time Korea rolled around, the old adage about 'radial vs inline', must've made the Corsair one of the Best ground-attack aircraft then available, the 'F-51' did suffer heavier losses whilst in this role there...

And LG is generally correct about daylight dogfighting of Mosquitos....they were never intended for that role, but did what it could when confronted, whereas the P-38 was a fighter from the start...
Both these aircraft did far more than was ever expected of them, and they both had their respective problems, and I guess we ALL have our favourite aircraft and will defend them vigourously....

As plan_D states, 'do we have to have this discussion again ?' and I feel I've said all I really can about the Mossie, and at this time, I just find it really exciting to see going on around the world, these talented enthusiasts restoring all the old Warbird aircraft to such an awesome degree of originality, which is the Finest Tribute to that past generation of young men, who selflessly flew fought in them, to give us the relative Peace we live in today......

 

[evangilder]

Wmaxt, Yes, the L did iron out alot of problems, but while Lindbergh's methods are well known to save fuel, it was a lot harder on the engines. The Allisons were pretty temperamental, and they still are. Ask anyone who has worked on a P-38. Unfortunately, the one in our museum had an engine rebuild from someone who had problems with other rebuilds and so it has not been off the ground in 3 years.

Sadly, there has been a long custody battle brewing over that P-38 and some other aircraft and because of that it has been sitting idle. The worst part is that, long story short, we lost the custody battle and it is returning to where it came from. So around mid-January, we will be losing our Lightning. It may be back, hopefully, but it will be awhile.

Gemhorse, I agree that he Mossie and the Lightning both had their strengths and both did more than their original designs called for. They both were great.

With the Corsair and P-51/F-51, I personally would choose the Corsair for ground support. Radial engines are way more resilient. I gave a presentation on the P-47 last weekend and there was a WWII P-47 Crew Chief who spoke as well. He said that there were many stories of P-47s coming back with up to 5 (yes FIVE) jugs (piston and cylinder) completely shot off! Yet they still made it home. Water cooled engines are way too susceptible to ground fire. One .303 in the radiator or coolant line, and you have maybe 20 minutes before you are done.

 

[Lightning Guy]

All excellent points. On the matter of favorite aircraft people tend to become attached very firmly and for personal reasons. As much fun as these continued discussions are, I don't think anyone's opinion is really going to be swayed.

 

[evangilder]

Agreed, if you have a favorite airplane or one you like alot, chances are, no one is going to change your mind about a favorite, or one you like. There are good and bad points to all of them, some more than others.

 

[lesofprimus]

All excellent points. On the matter of favorite aircraft people tend to become attached very firmly and for personal reasons. As much fun as these continued discussions are, I don't think anyone's opinion is really going to be swayed.

Not so..... I have seen CC's opinion change atleast 6 times on a certain subject...

 

[cheddar cheese]

Not for the First 3 in my lists

 

[lesofprimus]

Ur favorite fighter changed so many times we started kidding u about it CC......

 

[cheddar cheese]

Did it?

 

[lesofprimus]

Hehe yea.......

 

[cheddar cheese]

I can safely say now that its the Fw-190D-9...

 

[lesofprimus]

I thought either the .108 or the -38 were ur favorite.....