Best Aircraft in many different roles

[wmaxt]

There were something like 1200+ PR versions of the P-38 and that has to count for alot. Also, it flew in more theatres than the Mossie and that is important to.

As far as the Corsair is concerned, it was unable to match the P-38 in climb, dive, turn, payload, radius, or firepower and every other attribute would be pretty close.

The F-4U4 was almost identicle in climb, claimed overload and top speed (check out the web page "Planes and Pilots of WWII") you'like the F-4U4 article as he showes the superiority of the Corsair he has lots of "Except for the P-38 excerpts. The 14 rocket P-38 was also a Cristmas tree and it did concentrate to much load on the wing, I was unaware the same determination was made with the zero length launchers.

I've never seen the multiple hard point P-38, do you have pic's?

 

[Lightning Guy]

I've got the pic in a magazine. I will try to get in on here but it will be a while before I could do that. There is a smaller hard point on either side of the standard hardpoint and all six are mounting a 500lb bomb. According to Warren Bodie's book that loadout was fairly common in the MTO.

 

[Gemhorse]

The P-38 provided a good long-range fighter in the PTO until the P-51D started to supercede it later in the War...and there was a few PR Lightnings, indeed...most long-range aircraft had that capability...but the Spitfire Mosquito PR versions were UN-ARMED, so probably quicker....

As for the Corsair, well it did sterling work in the PTO, right in there at Okinawa with RP's, right through into Occupation Duties, and then they went to Korea, and did a Tour of Duty there, especially night ground-attack under flares just over the 38th parallel, cutting the N.Korean supply lines...... then they stopped producing them in 1953 but they stayed in service for a little while longer after that.........
- They scrapped the P-38's after Japan surrendered.....

As for NF P-38's, they must've put the guns somewhere else, because the gunflash, with or without tracer would've blinded the pilot...
- Mosquitos just deleted the 4x.303's, leaving the cannons which were housed right underneath them, and just the gun-flame from them came a few yards out in front....but with the Nav/Radar Op. scoping the tube, they could usually keep the target available.....

 

[cheddar cheese]

I think on the NF P-38's there was a special device fitted to the guns to reduce the flash, but I will have to look this up.

In the meanwhile, here is a rather sad photo I found in the album the other day.

 

[Lightning Guy]

The PR versions of the P-38 (except the one XF-5D) were all unarmed. Also, the P-38 carried a better assortment of cameras than either the Mossie of the Spit.

The P-38M, the NF version, had flash surpressors fitted to all guns.

Numerous aircraft were shortly after the war (that's what happens when wars end, weapons are destroyed). Countless Hellcats, Avengers, P-47s, Spits, Mossies, Forts, Lancs, Libs, and whatever else you care to name were sold, scrapped, or simply abandoned within the first few post-war years. Certainly that doesn't detract from the contribution these aircraft made to the war effort or their place in history. The outbreak of peace and the dawn of the jet age where the causes of these cutbacks.

As an added note, in August of 1945, the USAAF still had several thousand P-38Ls on order and a second factory (the Lockheed-Vega plant in Nashville) was just begining to turn out P-38s. The US was committed to continuing to use the P-38 for as long as the war continued. And it would have been of better use in the early days of Korea than the F-51 Mustangs.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

sadly we will never know that...............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Well if you look at what the F-51 done in Korea, you compare it to how the P-38 done it in WW2 and see which was better.

For instance, if its ground attack we're talking about then the P38 would have been better off than the F-51.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the corsair was doing fine though, and the skyraider, a much better ground attack platform than the P-38,-51 AND corsair............

 

[cheddar cheese]

The Corsair and Skyraider are irrelevant. We're talking about the fact the the P-38 would have been far more effective than the F-51 during the early Korean war.

 

[lesofprimus]

Maybe one of u should bring this over to the Post WWII Section and start a thread about the best plane for the job in Korea....

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, but the NF Mosquito was really a case of simplicity, this role began early in it's combat career and they weren't retired until the NF Mk.38's were replaced in 1951 by NF Vampires, and two years later NF Venoms joined the Vampires....That's a bloody remarkable combat career for a 'wooden' aircraft, legendary in fact, compared to any NF service performed by the P-38.....

I realise that at War's end, aircraft get scrapped, but if the P-38 was SO good, why did it's overall service career finish at the end of the War ??...Why did the Corsair and P/F-51 continue on into Postwar service, the latter through into the early '70's ???...It wasn't just the 'Jet-age', and as Lanc pointed-out about the Skyraider, which was one of the most powerful piston-jobs built, or the Sea Fury, or the Mosquito's hot-rod sister, the DH-103 Hornet, or the Latter Mk.'s of Spitfire......

The P-38 seemed to have alot of development potential, it was indeed effective at it's various roles, but there seems to be no satisfactory reason why it didn't seriously continue Postwar, even to be sold to Foreign AF's, as alot of the rest were....or had it really reached it's zenith by then ???......

 

[wmaxt]

The P-38 provided a good long-range fighter in the PTO until the P-51D started to supercede it later in the War...and there was a few PR Lightnings, indeed...most long-range aircraft had that capability...but the Spitfire Mosquito PR versions were UN-ARMED, so probably quicker....

As for the Corsair, well it did sterling work in the PTO, right in there at Okinawa with RP's, right through into Occupation Duties, and then they went to Korea, and did a Tour of Duty there, especially night ground-attack under flares just over the 38th parallel, cutting the N.Korean supply lines...... then they stopped producing them in 1953 but they stayed in service for a little while longer after that.........
- They scrapped the P-38's after Japan surrendered.....

As for NF P-38's, they must've put the guns somewhere else, because the gunflash, with or without tracer would've blinded the pilot...
- Mosquitos just deleted the 4x.303's, leaving the cannons which were housed right underneath them, and just the gun-flame from them came a few yards out in front....but with the Nav/Radar Op. scoping the tube, they could usually keep the target available.....

Actuly the very last mission of WWII was reported to be a 2,800mi mission over Borneo on 15 Aug 45 by P-38s. P-38s also landed in Japan before any other allied aircraft. The P-51s never replaced the P-38s except as escort in the ETO, they augmented them by replacing the P-40s and then were primarily used in escort missions from Iwo. The P-38s were retired because they were twice the cost of a P-51 not because they could do ANYTHING better (they couldn't until the H model and it's only claim was speed). The P-38M came about because tests showed it better than the P-61. Flash hiders made it bearable to fire the guns at night.

 

[plan_D]

I fail to see how the P-38 being the first aircraft to land in Japan makes it any better. If you're going into that, the Mosquito was the first to bomb Berlin in daylight.

The Mosquito did everything, and it did it all very well or good enough. It served in Europe and the Pacific (where the Americans ruined the paint job).

 

[Gemhorse]

Thanks wmaxt, it's always puzzled me why it was discontinued.....bloody shame to scrap such fine aircraft as they did, if only they had known that 50-60 years on, they'd be worth a million or two, restored....

 

[Lightning Guy]

There were some intial plans to leave the P-38s to the South Korean air force following WWII but Washington and the State Department nixed that idea. It makes for a very interesting "what if."

Plan_D, the Mossie didn't do it all. As an obvious example, it never served as a pure day fighter. It never flew a fighter sweep, intercept, or escort mission in daylight. The day fighter role was a huge mission in the war years and the Mossie never fulfilled it. And it's service around the glode doesn't even begin to compare to the P-38.

 

[plan_D]

No, wait right there...before we get dragged into this ALL over again...I'm stepping out of it. We had this in the Mosquito Vs. Lightning thread donkeys years ago.

 

[cheddar cheese]

So what, its worth getting into again to prove a simple point...

 

[evangilder]

Thanks wmaxt, it's always puzzled me why it was discontinued.....bloody shame to scrap such fine aircraft as they did, if only they had known that 50-60 years on, they'd be worth a million or two, restored....

I agree that they should have continued development, but maybe it had reached ts peak. It was designed in 1937 in response to Specification X-608. It first flew on January 27, 1939. The F4U and the P-51 were newer fighters and they were cheaper to make. People often tout the Allisons, but they had more than their fair share of problems, especially in the P-38. From one of my articles:

"Every Lightning in the European theater had at least one set of engines changed during it's service life. The Allisons were problematic, but the redundancy of 2 engines helped to bring back many aircraft. The problem with the Allison engines were not entirely due to the design of the engines. The cooling system that was initially installed was not adequate and the lack of cowl flaps exasperated the problem. The original intercooler system led the airflow from the turbosuperchargers to the wingtip and back, which was a less than ideal situation. Later models resolved this problem. Temperatures at high altitudes above Europe were often 40 degrees below zero, which did not allow the engines to warm properly for correct oil cooling. Additionally, at the fuel octane and lead separated at that temperature, causing valve failures and backfires that would fire through the intercooler ducts, sometimes warping the leading edge of the wing. Engine fires were also experienced due to broken connecting rods. These problems were corrected for the most part in later models with the changes made to the intercoolers and the addition of the rear ducts."

The P-38 also had no cockpit heating or cooling, which meant the pilot froze or fried, depending on the climate and altitude.

Don't get me wrong, I love the P-38 and it did a great job in many roles. But I am not so sure that it would have been a great post-war airplane.

I also have an affection for the Mosquito, so I couldn't pick a "Which one is better" side. They both were superb airplanes that did a great job.

 

[plan_D]

Really, if you want to start it again we'll just copy and paste the whole Lighting - Mossie thread.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Nah, members like wmaxt need a chance to have their say.