Best Fighter III

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I'm sure there are a lot of single point failures in a R2800 that is suseptable to a bullet; oil pumps, oil lines, oil coolers, fuel lines, fuel pumps, even a lucky shot into one of the jugs could possibly cause failure of the engine. It was a tough engine and less complex and less vunerable than the Merlin, just not totally bullet proof.
 

Well lets just agree to slightly disagree then
 

No Way Man! Are you lieing to us! You mean to tell me that bullets would just fly off the R2800 like it was Superman!

Sorry I could not resist.
 
No you are completely missing my point. My point is that once the P-51 was over Germany and was fighting a Bf-109 or Fw-190 that had just taken off, its range was negligent in the fight. Think about what I am saying.

I know exactly what you're saying. Under a specific set of circumstances it did well. As an escort fighter over Britain and over Malta, not so well.
 


The first production F4F was accepted by the Royal Navy AFTER the start of the Battle of Britain. The USN got their first after the BoB was over. By the end of the BoB there was a grand total of 85 F4F's in existance. Taking into account the time required for pilot training on a brand new aircraft it's impossible for the F4F to have made any impact on the BoB. It wasn't ready in time.
 

In the well researched Bodenplatte book by John Manrho and Ron Putz, Appendix 5,

LW aerial combat claims

Fernschreiben II.Jako.Ic Nr.140/44 geh. vom 3.1.45

55 destroyed, 11 probables

Luftwaffenfuhrungsstab 1c, Fremde Luftwaffen West, Nr.1160/45Sg.vom 25.2.45

65 claimed, 12 probable

A list by pilot has 52 claims.

Chap. 13

Allied aerial losses were 15 shot down and 10 damaged. Six more were lost to other various reasons. Allied aerial claims of LW a/c was 97. Allied AA made 129 claims.

German flak claimed 15 LW fighters and 2 Ju88 Lotsen, for sure. Adding 1/2 of the losses to unknown reasons only brings the number to 30-35 a/c shot down by 'friendly' flak.

LW losses:
271 Bf109/Fw190 destroyed (60-100%)
65 Bf109/Fw190 damaged

9 Ju88 destroyed
2 Ju88 damaged

Losses by reason:
47% Allied AA
23% Allied fighters
5% German flak
5% accidents
5% by either Allied AA or fighters
3% technical reasons
1% fuel starvation
11% unknown
 
Interesting info there, but if you look at any source they are all different. I dont think it will ever be confirmed so I go with the most accepted stats and that is what I posted up there.
 
I suggest you get the book published in 2004, after years of extensive research. It is the most comprehensive study of Bodenplatte ever published. You can sluff it off and have a closed mind if you what, but that is your loss. Will you sluff off Erich's book when it comes out because it does not jive with what has been written before?

Just to show how extensive the research was for this book, the fate of 15 missing LW members, 8 being from Bodenplatte, were discovered.
 

in that case i'm willing to bet that 19% of Pilots asked were British and 81% were American have you any more information on this claim? and don't just look at the black and white of "it's an inline and must be weak", obviously the Merlin's weaker than a R-2800 but that does not change the fact that she was one of the most reliable and widely used engines of the war..........
 
Look at the sorties versus losses in Europe of the P47 with a radial engine versus the P51, P38 and P40, all with liquid cooled engines and most with Merlins. It seems obvious to me that an inline liquid cooled engine is more vulnerable to battle damage than a radial air cooled engine. That is the reason the US Navy insisted on air cooled engines because flying over water demanded a more reliable and rugged engine than flying over land.
 
You are mostly correct about the F4F-3. The British took delivery of the first Martlet on July 27, 1940. By Oct. 40 the FAA had 81 Martlets. They could not have had any impact on the BOB. However the US Navy was using the first production F4F by April, 1940.
 

Agreed radials are more resistant to damage than inlines but that point has never really been a matter of discussion here...

And the majority of those aircraft you named were powered by Allisons not Merlins...
 
Agreed radials are more resistant to damage than inlines but that point has never really been a matter of discussion here...

And the majority of those aircraft you named were powered by Allisons not Merlins...
Only the P-38 was totally powered by Allisons. Only a handful of the P-51 family used Allisons and the P40 family was split between Allison and Merlin.
 
It is the most comprehensive study of Bodenplatte ever published.

Very might well be. As a aviation enthusiast I wll check it out. I dont happen to be as closed minded as you accuse me of!

So quit with your attitude, especially when you have all of 4 posts in this forum.

Morai_Milo said:
You can sluff it off and have a closed mind if you what, but that is your loss.

I am not in a good mood tonight, dont accuse me of things when you do not know me. You got that NOOB!!!!

I dont know what they teach you where you come from, but where I am from you get to know people before you judge them. Dont ever judge a book by its cover. You got that! My recommendation to you is this: Look around the forum and learn about this site before talking ****!

Morai Milo said:
Will you sluff off Erich's book when it comes out because it does not jive with what has been written before?

First of all me and Erich exchange info on a daily basis. If he has info then I read and learn from it. Dont talk **** NOOB!
 

No one has ever argued that a radial succumed to battle damage more than an inline. Everyone knows that radials are more rugged and reliable, however what people seem to think is that radials were bullet proof! You put rounds into a radial engine it is going to break or atleast not work efficiently.

It does not matter if you have an inline or a radial. Damage to the engine is bad and all engines are succeptable to damage.
 

Alder, chill m8.

Milo is getting a lashing for this? Are his words so bad?

Did you smack Kurfürst down for being such a swell guy toward me (and to Steve Hinton)?

[My apologies in advance if something else is wrong, you said you were not in a good mood, I hope it is nothing serious]
 
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