Best German fighter for the Eastern Front

[Civettone]

And as to the topic at hand, what about the VL Pyorremyrsky ? Similar but better and safer than the Bf 109G, plus made out of wood.

If not, I think I would prefer the cheap Bf 109K as well. Not the K-4, but the K-2. The K-4 had a pressurized cockpit for higher altitudes. The K-2 did not and I guess it would make the plane a little bit lighter.

As all combat took place at low level, a Bf 109G-14 with a DB 605AM would be perfect. There would be no point in having the DB 605 AS or D, a simple AM would suffice. By 1945 the best would be the BF 109K-2 with a DB 605ASB, but flying on C3 without MW 50, because of the lack of methanol by then. (Of course also avgas was lacking, but methanol was much more important.)


Kris

 

[Civettone]

double post

 

[altsym]

I have my doubts about the controls freezing up at high speed. They were very heavy, but it seems to me that this was more a problem for the Allied post-war test pilots than for the Luftwaffe pilot, who were used to it. I do not believe that they simply froze.

The Bf 109F has always been described as a near-perfect fighter plane in terms of handling (in the air). With max speed of 660 km/h, I fail to see why a Bf 109G-14 with a similar maximum speed would suddenly be a flying like a brick?

Kris

I will be talking to my good friend Theo Nau tonight about the subject of Controls of the BF 109 @ High Speed. He flew a BF 109G-14/AS with JG 11 JG 77. I'll report what he said in a couple days (perhaps a new thread). Yes he may not a young man anymore, but his mind is as sharp as a tack.

 

[Mike Williams]

By 1945 the best would be the BF 109K-2 with a DB 605ASB, but flying on C3 without MW 50, because of the lack of methanol by then. (Of course also avgas was lacking, but methanol was much more important.)Kris

Hello Civettone, Do you have a source regarding the lack of methanol in 1945?

Thanks.

 

[Tante Ju]

If not, I think I would prefer the cheap Bf 109K as well. Not the K-4, but the K-2. The K-4 had a pressurized cockpit for higher altitudes. The K-2 did not and I guess it would make the plane a little bit lighter.

Kris

K-2 essentially became the G-10. The K-4 was NOT pressurized!

 

[Civettone]

I will be talking to my good friend Theo Nau tonight about the subject of Controls of the BF 109 @ High Speed. He flew a BF 109G-14/AS with JG 11 JG 77. I'll report what he said in a couple days (perhaps a new thread). Yes he may not a young man anymore, but his mind is as sharp as a tack.

Wow, that would be awesome !!

Hello Civettone, Do you have a source regarding the lack of methanol in 1945?

Thanks.

Hi Mike, I get it from the USSBS reports. You can find the part on methanol here: Appendix A. Strategic Air Attack on the German Chemical Industry

K-2 essentially became the G-10. The K-4 was NOT pressurized!

I stand corrected. The K and G-10 were very similar. But for one, the retractable tail wheel was not present on the G-10. But then again, maybe some Ks still had the non-retractable one. Production standards were an illusion by then.

Kris

 

[tomo pauk]

K-4 also featuring wheel well covers, unlike the G-10?

 

[Tante Ju]

What I was meant that the K-2 was supposedly the one in the K-series with 20mm cannon. The tossed that one out and went for all MK 108 armed -4 series. The G-10 become a sort of a doubler for the canceled K variant, I read somewhere that the original K-2 serial numbers were eventually assigned to G-10 production - probably not a coincidence. Of course the G-10 did not have the wheel fairings (main or tail). It did have however the K series engine and generator in a G airframe, essentially a G/K hybrid (which is pretty useful stuff from the maintaince POV, if you have both in a unit).

 

[Mike Williams]

Hi Mike, I get it from the USSBS reports. You can find the part on methanol here: Appendix A. Strategic Air Attack on the German Chemical Industry
Kris

Thanks for the link Civettone! The material is very interesting and informative.

 

[Civettone]

Mike, I am glad that I can return the favour of sharing info


Kris

 

[Denniss]

The G-10 was basically a K-series engine installed into a G-series airframe.

 

[Jenisch]

As I already expressed earlier in this topic, I tend to pick the 109 for the East. The plane was superior to the 190 in the vertical, which was a good advantage. It also could engage in maneuver fight with the Russian planes, something the Fw 190 would found itself in trouble.

 

[parsifal]

But thats just it...what instances are there where the 190 was "in trouble" it was outnumbered, and the Russians werent really gunning for air superiority. however losses were always heavily one sided in favour of the Germans, 190 or 109. Its just there were not enough of them, and not enough losses on the Russians, to make any difference.

 

[Jenisch]

I'm talking about performance. After the La-5FN arrived, the 190 became inferior to the 109. The Russians themselfs say that. There are people who try to refute this, but the La-5FN was ligther than the 190 with equal or more power, and hence it climbed better. Thus, the 109 had more flexibility to fight. The Americans arrived at the same conclusion when evaluated the Ki-84 against their planes (although operational Ki-84s were different than the optimum tested US ones).

 

[Milosh]

I think one has to be careful with the Fw190 on the Eastern Front. Many of those Fw190s were the 'F' model with SG units and these definitely would be under performers, tho there were several aces in the Fw190F.

 

[Civettone]

Just adding this
VL Pyorremyrsky

Kris

 

[tomo pauk]

Maybe the Italian series 5 fighters would offer more, the MC.205 series III (the one with wing cannons) seem like one that would gave the VVS machines a good run for their money.

 

[Jenisch]

Pauk, the G-56 seems to be a good machine, but I don't have charts for it's climb and speed performance compared to the late 109s. As for what Italy could have provided for the East, the G-56 would be something.

 

[davebender]

Not for ground attack and that's what Fw-190F was designed to do.

Rudel stated that he was not afraid of Soviet fighter aircraft when flying Fw-190F. However he wasn't afraid when flying Ju-87 either.

 

[Milosh]

Not for ground attack and that's what Fw-190F was designed to do.

Due try to clue in Dave > Air to Air combat.