Best tank killer aircraft of WW2 Part I

[Lightning Guy]

Yeah. Everything I have seen suggests that the 262s were basically reduced to making attacks either one or two at a time.

 

[Erich]

sometimes in threes but it would depend on the escorts. Kinda strange but during the spring battels of 45 the jets would attack in staffel strength first in a straight line firing their rockets at long range and then attack by two and threes through the formation.........

not real sure on attacking ground columns though as there just isn't much on JG 7's last days in trying to knock out Soviet armor except that there were success's with the altered R4M and the four 3cm kanon

 

[Lightning Guy]

I imagine that concentration of firepower would have been lethal against just about anything the Soviets had at the time (but WWII armor is NOT my strong point).

 

[plan_D]

Without getting too deep into the armour values of Soviet tanks, I can assure you the R4/M and 30mm could destroy anything the Soviets had. The Soviet Armour even from the ground was extremely vunerable to the Panzerfaust, as they found out in Berlin.

The R4/M actually paved way for the Mighty Mouse FFAR folding-fin aircraft rocket. Even more scary was the X-4 a wire guided air-to-air missile with a range of 2.2 miles. They tested it on Fw-190s and they were about to test it on Me-262s but the war ended, it never got used in action but it would have been deadly if it did.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

how often were the r4m used??

 

[Lightning Guy]

The problem with the X-4 was that the launching plane had to maintain straight and level flight for the entire duration of the missle's flight. That wouldn't have been very healthy with all those Mustangs flying around.

 

[Erich]

Lanc, the R4M Orkan rockets were used on every mission that III. and I./JG 7 were on intercepting US and RAF bombers by day. First mission was 18 of March 1945............

 

[plan_D]

Certainly having a X-4 drilled into your plane was an unhealthy prospect, these things didn't stick around. The launching plane wouldn't be there an awful length of time, and maybe the other Fw-190 or Me-262s could protect the launching plane. I don't know how they'd go about it, but it certainly wouldn't have been an enjoyable experience for the bomber crews.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

can you tell me a bit more about the X-4 please??

 

[plan_D]

The X-4 was the worlds first air-to-air guided missile. It was an air launched wire-guided missile, which had a wire range of 3.4 km. It was controlled by the pilot of the mother plane by a joystick.
Flares would be released from the back of the missile to let the pilot see where it was heading. It went 716 mph at 21,00 ft and had a warhead of 44 lbs.

It was only ever air tested on a Fw-190 on 11th August 1944. There's extensive information on the Luft' 46 site under the missiles section.

 

[Lightning Guy]

A speed of 716mph breaks down to a flight time of ten seconds. From what I've heard about aerial combat, that's a long time to fly staight and level in the middle of a dogfight. I'm not saying that the X-4 wouldn't have caused a lot of trouble for Allied bombers, but it would not have put the German fighters in a very envious position either.

 

[plan_D]

I assume that ten seconds is if you let it go at 3.4km. Ten seconds is a long time but at that distance you're not yet locked into the dogfight, the escorts will have to pick you out. And if your wingmen are covering you...

...not really something I'd want to do but I wouldn't want to be in the bomber being shot at either.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I agree. I'm just saying that the X-4, despite all of its advanced technology, wasn't quite a 'silver bullet.' It did have its drawbacks.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that sounds like an amazing missile, any pics??

and surely if you were in a dogfight

1) you would be to busy fighting to fire it
2) with, what sounds like a large-ish missile, it would be suiside fighting with it anyway??

 

[plan_D]

You wouldn't be in a dogfight when you fired them, they had a range of 3.4km. You're out of range of any guns at that point in time, the escorting fighters would be coming to get you but you wouldn't be in a dogfight.
They weren't that big, just go to the link below:

http://www.luft46.com/missile/x-4.html[/url]

 

[Lightning Guy]

The Germans probably would have used the same tactics they used with the Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets with conventional Bf-109s and Fw-190s covering the dedicated bomber-destroyers. The complication with the X-4 was that the launching plane wasn't free to maneuver immediately after launch.

 

[Erich]

slightly OT but it is the same for the He 111, Ju 290 and Dornier, He 117 bomber crews, as the radio guided air to ground bombs were sent against shipping the German a/c had to stay on a stragiht course so the operator could watch the drop of the bomb/missile to its target guided with a joystick. any German bomber deviation would of course send the projectile off course. Same applies with the X-4.

 

[Lightning Guy]

I think they German air-to-ground missles were slightly better because they were radio-controlled. As I understand it, the plane could take limited evasive action as long as the operator could still see the missle.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

surely as long as the person guiding the missile could still see and control the missile the plane could move freely, as the missile's moving independently of the plane...................

 

[Lightning Guy]

That's what I am thinking. Radio control gave more tactical flexibility that wire guidance althought a wire-guided missle couldn't be jammed.