Erich
the old Sage
I agree let the nation of Israel pound that crumb into dust. I wait impatiently for my Velodrome. his attitude is so snotty he's run out of bugger cloth's
British Sailors seized by Iran.
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Ajax
Airman 1st Class
There are rumours warbling at least one of the sailors was kept in solitary confinement...
Emac44
Staff Sergeant
Just glad these Sailors and Marines are home with their families. Saw on Sky News that Iranian Military Vessels had boarded civilian shipping numerous times and Iranian Military personal had robbed the Civilian Crews of money and valuables. Which amounts to Piracy. And more so its Piracy because it is sanctioned by the Iranian Government. Sky News had suppressed the story until there was some sort of a release date for the Marines and Sailors. But once they were released Sky News reported the delayed news story
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Nope.
Soundbreaker Welch?
Tech Sergeant
Now the British Marines say that they were lying when making statements in captivity about tresspassing into Iranian waters. I guess if I was told I would be going to jail for seven years I might say a white lie like that too.
I imagine this last statement from them is the correct one? That Iran was the one that tresspassed into Iraq's waters?
Or is just that the two countries waterway borders are all mixed up anyway?
I imagine this last statement from them is the correct one? That Iran was the one that tresspassed into Iraq's waters?
Or is just that the two countries waterway borders are all mixed up anyway?
Ajax
Airman 1st Class
1 I don't think the Iraqis are in any position to argue the point, so I guess we'll have to do it for them...
2 The borders are disputed, but it's obvious we were well within iraqi waters
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Hell they didn't even know where they were when they reported the capture to begin with. Not only are they supporters of terrorism, but they apparently can't even read GPS coordinates.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Hehehe
mkloby
Master Sergeant
Is that you laughing at your own wisecrack???
Ajax
Airman 1st Class
That sort of thing is Strictly forbidden!
How can a nation get away with mock execution nowadays? The dirty, theavin, ungrateful bastards...
How can a nation get away with mock execution nowadays? The dirty, theavin, ungrateful bastards...
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
I have a concern about the British sailors and marines who were captured without a fight and who in a very short time caved in and said whatever their captors wanted them to. Is this the type of behavior their training prepared them for? When I compare this to the behavior of John McCain and Sam Johnson and countless others in Viet Nam and when I try to remember the words of the code of honor we learned when I was in the service(admittedly not in combat) Does anyone else share my concern?
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Matt said:
Ur damn right it was....kloby said:
- Thread starter
- #274
Reinrich, what planet do you live on? 'Cos it certainly isn't the same one I'm on.
You're complaining about 15 British servicemen surrendering without a fight, against six Iranian gunboats. It ain't Hollywood, if those people would have fought against the Iranians they'd have been killed in an instant.
And for the troops to announce that they were in Iranian waters means nothing. Everyone knew they were lying, and they just wanted to go home. British training is "name, rank and number" that's it...but if telling a lie gets you home then so be it.
You're complaining about 15 British servicemen surrendering without a fight, against six Iranian gunboats. It ain't Hollywood, if those people would have fought against the Iranians they'd have been killed in an instant.
And for the troops to announce that they were in Iranian waters means nothing. Everyone knew they were lying, and they just wanted to go home. British training is "name, rank and number" that's it...but if telling a lie gets you home then so be it.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
nope
mkloby
Master Sergeant
Renrich is referring the US Code of Conduct:
Article I: I am an American, fighting in the armed forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
Article II: I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
Article III: If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
Article IV: If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
Article V: When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service, number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
Article VI: I will never forget that I am an American, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
Honestly, renrich, that had crossed my mind. But, the thing is, 1 - I don't know what type of code of conduct the British forces have. And 2 - I really know nothing of the sort of what went on. You really just don't know what had happened. I think that's the important part. I don't think anyone is in a position to pass judgment on their actions. I believe if there is any thought of wrongdoing, the british will investigate and take appropriate action.
Article I: I am an American, fighting in the armed forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
Article II: I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
Article III: If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
Article IV: If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
Article V: When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service, number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
Article VI: I will never forget that I am an American, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
Honestly, renrich, that had crossed my mind. But, the thing is, 1 - I don't know what type of code of conduct the British forces have. And 2 - I really know nothing of the sort of what went on. You really just don't know what had happened. I think that's the important part. I don't think anyone is in a position to pass judgment on their actions. I believe if there is any thought of wrongdoing, the british will investigate and take appropriate action.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
No actually, it was a rather lame attempt to cover up the fact that I pasted a post in the wrong thread. 
Heed my Title, mkloby! I shall not answer your queries of my F'ups hence forward.
Heed my Title, mkloby! I shall not answer your queries of my F'ups hence forward.
renrich said, "Does anyone else share my concern?"
Very well said renrich and yes, I for one do.
Joint statement from Lt. Carmen:
"I would just like to stress three points at this stage:
* When taken by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard we were well inside Iraqi territorial waters.
* The detention was clearly illegal and not a pleasant experience.
* We as a group held out for as long as we though appropriate. We then complied up to a point with our captors.
We remain Immensely proud of our team. Their courage and dignity throughout their illegal detention was in line with the best tradition of the service."
Held out for as long as they felt appropriate? They caved within a week. Complied up to a point? I'm trying to imagine what they possibly were asked to say which they refused to give in on. Best traditions of the service? If I were a member of the Iranian military, I would certainly feel emboldened by this display of "best tradition."
They say the sun never sets on the British Empire. Perhaps she finally shriveled up from too much exposure.
The aspect of this story that I find most interesting is just how dangerous the Iranians are. The British captives said that a primary reason for not fighting back was they did not want to provoke an international incident with its unintended, attendant consequences. Interesting that the Iranians deliberately planned a seizure of 15 British a mile and a half within internationally recognized Iraqi waters without the restraint of any such considerations. What if there had been a firefight (which the Iranians necessarily would have expected as not just possible but quite likely) and an ensuing loss of all 15 Britons?
Oops.
Very well said renrich and yes, I for one do.
Joint statement from Lt. Carmen:
"I would just like to stress three points at this stage:
* When taken by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard we were well inside Iraqi territorial waters.
* The detention was clearly illegal and not a pleasant experience.
* We as a group held out for as long as we though appropriate. We then complied up to a point with our captors.
We remain Immensely proud of our team. Their courage and dignity throughout their illegal detention was in line with the best tradition of the service."
Held out for as long as they felt appropriate? They caved within a week. Complied up to a point? I'm trying to imagine what they possibly were asked to say which they refused to give in on. Best traditions of the service? If I were a member of the Iranian military, I would certainly feel emboldened by this display of "best tradition."
They say the sun never sets on the British Empire. Perhaps she finally shriveled up from too much exposure.
The aspect of this story that I find most interesting is just how dangerous the Iranians are. The British captives said that a primary reason for not fighting back was they did not want to provoke an international incident with its unintended, attendant consequences. Interesting that the Iranians deliberately planned a seizure of 15 British a mile and a half within internationally recognized Iraqi waters without the restraint of any such considerations. What if there had been a firefight (which the Iranians necessarily would have expected as not just possible but quite likely) and an ensuing loss of all 15 Britons?
Oops.
mkloby
Master Sergeant
No actually, it was a rather lame attempt to cover up the fact that I pasted a post in the wrong thread.
Heed my Title, mkloby! I shall not answer your queries of my F'ups hence forward.
Yes, Sir!
Matt308
Glock Perfection
