C-47/DC-3

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by nimrod.michaeli, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. nimrod.michaeli

    nimrod.michaeli New Member

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    #1 nimrod.michaeli, Jul 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2009
    why do people say that c-47 was the most important plane during wwii

    isnt it that all planes are important at a time of war

    think of a cake you need all ingridents (which our case all kind of planes) to reach the final result?

    what made this plane as one of the most significant transport aircraft ever made?
     
  2. Doughboy

    Doughboy Member

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    "why do people say that c-47 was the most important plane during wwii"


    It transported American and British paratroopers...That's an important job.
     
  3. Junkers88A1

    Junkers88A1 Active Member

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    it delivered a lot of the goods :) and was durable..and aviable :)
     
  4. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    It was the one of the most produced, durable, flyable, maintainable and operationally effective transports in history, not just WWII. These planes are flying to this day in commercial numbers that are unheralded in aviation.

    So whether you might find the Dakota/Skytrain unsexy, slow or incapable of unbelievable loads, she has proven herself irrespective of such labels. The DC-3/C-47 is an historic bird.
     
  5. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    It was supposed to be the first airplane that could make money flying passangers without a mail contract/subsidy.
     
  6. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    I think the original question of 'most important' is basically flawed anyway, for exactly the reasons you said nimrod.

    The C-47 was everything that its most vociferous supporters say it was (even if they do overdo it a bit imho :) ) but it could never have won the BoB, or bombed Berlin, or nuked Nagasaki, or.....you get the idea.
     
  7. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    WTF? I missed the point of that post Waynos. What was it again?
     
  8. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    It was my clumsy way of saying, in response to the original question why you can't have a single 'most important' however good it was. I am feeling v.peed off right now as I was typing a response to the second post which was very long and explanatory but they were merged before I hit post. when I did 'poof', all gone, and now I want to cry, or try to remember what I wrote. :cry:
     
  9. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    #9 Waynos, Jul 31, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
    When these were two separate threads, this was my answer to the DC-3 part of the question;

    The DC-3 was designed as the DST, which stood for Douglas Sleeper Transport. To this end Douglas gave it a wider fuselage than the preceding DC-2, this was to accomodate sleeping berths for long distance flights.

    However, when fitted with more seats instead the DC-3 had the same seating capacity as, for example, Imperial Airways huge, heavy and four engined HP.42's - It was also a stressed skin monoplane with a retractable undercarriage, flying before the Bf 109 and Spitfire! The modern economical airliner had just been invented, although it was not the first with these features, the combination of them coupled with the planes abilities made it as revolutionary in its time as the 707 and 747 would later be.

    When WW2 ended lots of ex service pilots were looking to start up transport services (as well as the pre war airlines looking to reboot, as it were. Buying new aircraft would have been prohibitively expensive, but a near 10,000 C-47's were built in WW2 and the majority of these were now war surplus and thus available for peanuts to crews who, in many cases knew them inside out. The transport boom ensued and, as late as 1965, the DC-3 was the most widely used airliner in the world. For a time BEA even operated a turboprop verion powered by R-R Darts!

    The vast regional market it created led to the 'DC-3 REPLACEMENT' being a holy grail chased by manufacturers that gave us the Fokker F.27 and Hawker Siddeley 748 amongst many more. The regional Bombardier Q400's etc that you fly in today are a direct descendant of those DC-3 operations.

    That is why it is so famous and revered, it was the most influential single type of aeroplane ever built.
     
  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    It also set the benchmark on how transport aircraft, be they civilian or military were to be designed, configured, manufactured and operated. Things like the hydraulic and electrical systems, the lay out of controls, the thought that went into maintenance and even the way the seats were configured in the passenger versions all set a precedence that can still be seen today. All this and I haven't even gone into its operational record from WW2 to Korea and Vietnam and the smaller and 3rd world airforces that operated this aircraft up until the 21st century.
     
  11. river

    river Member

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    Hi,

    No one is doubting the importance of this wonderful aircraft in regards to its history in aviation. But I am not so sure I'd go as far to say it was the most important aircraft of WW2.

    river
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    It was...

    Folks tend to forget the logistical aspects of fighting a war, the need to move men and material and the cost involved. Its obvious that trains and ships are moving more stuff, but its the airplane that will put that stuff in harder to access places in a cost effective manner. With that said, another mark for the C-47 - COST to operate and maintain.

    Combine this, its operational record and its longevity and all the other things mentioned and its probably the most important aircraft ever built.
     
  13. river

    river Member

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    Hi,

    I hear what you are saying, but it is still debatable.

    I don't doubt the importance of the C47, but without it in WW2, what would be the effect?

    Let's also look at a couple of other highly important aircraft....

    The P51
    Without this there would be limited cover for daylight bombing operations. The loss od bombers and their crews would be horrendous. less bombers would make it to target and therefore the german industry would not be as damaged, and therefore be able to continue production.

    The B17
    Without this there would be a vast reduction in bomb laying capacity of the Allies. Again, this would allow the german industry to be less disrupted and be able to manufacture more weapons.

    The Hurricane
    Without it Britain would of possibly fallen during the BoB.

    The B29
    Without this the Japanese industry would of been able to continue, and their civilians not demoralised by incendary raids. There would be no nukes, which would of made the taking of the Japanese homeland a blood bath.

    The Lancaster
    Without this there would be no night operations and half of the 24hr bombing cycle on Germany would be non existant. Again, this gives time for the German industry to be able to produce more arms.

    As I said, I don't doubt the importance of the C47, but the above aircraft also worked as hard to help win the war. I couldn't put the C47 as more important than the above aircraft.

    river
     
  14. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    COST = More equipment to take up the slack, more personnel to maintain and operate it, more personnel at risk, more lives lost, more time spent on the war....


    And without a logistic system that would include and efficent and effective transport all these aircraft in many cases would have just sat on the ground lacking parts and/ or fuel.




    You would if you had no gas or spare parts or the ability to move ground troops into the areas where you just bombed.

    And don't forget something called an MC rate. From what I remember the C-47's MC rate was one of highest if not the highest of all WW2 aircraft.
     
  15. river

    river Member

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    Hi,

    If the C47 was the only logistic-capable mechanism of the war then i'd agree.

    The vast bulk of fuel, men, ammunition, food and guns was via ships and land supply/trucks. Without the C47 it would be harder, but not impossible.

    Without it the war would of probaly gone on longer. But, on the same token, without the other aircraft I mentioned, the war would also of gone on longer.

    river
     
  16. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    I have to agree with Joe. I've flown in dozens of C-47/R4D's, even flew right seat a couple of times. I believe for what it
    was designed to do, it did it better than any other aircraft in WW-II. After the war they were snapped up like hot-cakes
    for whatever airline needed to move something from here to there. And they are still going strong. Easy to fly, and
    maintain. That's important !

    Charles
     
  17. Junkers88A1

    Junkers88A1 Active Member

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    can anybody explain why the C-47 A in our museum here at Gardermoen / Norway has the words " NEVER " written on the delivery date ? :) it was buildt in 1944

    and i agree with Flyboy here :) and i have also gotten some right side time in the 2P seat and its a dream to fly :)

    and what that plane did during the war is pretty impressive,and also the thing that it actually got the war to end faster is something i belive in. as it got fuel and supply to needed places fast :)
     

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  18. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Hard to say why the data plate doesn't have a delivery date - my guess it was part of a US government contract that allocated money during a specific fiscal year so the delivery date didn't matter, but this is just a guess.

    Junkers - I've been told by a few friends who had the opportunity to fly a C-47 that it is a dream to fly and this is another attribute that places it on the top aviation pedestal. I taxied one but never had the opportunity to fly one.
     
  19. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    The DC-3/C-47 is without a doubt, one of the greatest aircraft ever. From it's design in the 1930s until today, Skytrains/Dakotas haul azz and trash where it needs to go. There are places in the world where the DC-3 still operates as a cargo aircraft into remote locations where air strips are primitive, and in cold climates that turn jet fuel into jelly.

    If the Supreme Commander calls it one of the most vital pieces of equipment used to win the war, I would say that it was real important.
     
  20. river

    river Member

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    Hi,

    Absolutely, it was one of the most vital peices of equipment used to win the war.

    The Aussies called them Biscuit Bombers, as they were used to drop supplies to forward troops fighting the Japanese.

    river
     
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