Coronavirus Thread

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I am told that some people in Britain have been seen wearing industrial dust masks with a valve. The idea of such masks is that the air coming in is filtered and the valve allows you to exhale without any resistance. Naturally these do nothing to protect anyone else.
 
Marcel said:
That's what I'm trying to say, most of them actually don't prevent that.
Click to expand...

While I agree that most are not effective (which has never been debated), we will agree to disagree on their usefulness. As I said, when used in conjunction with other barriers, any type of mask should reduce the risk.

Think of the swiss cheese model used in safety management. If you have no barriers, the hazard always gets through. You start adding barriers (swiss cheese slices), and the likelihood of the hazard getting through reduces. There are always holes in every barrier though, so you add more. The more slices (barriers) the more the likelihood reduces. Additionally, because of mitigation caused by the use of more barriers, the consequences are typically lessened.

 
Minnesota report, May 19
cases 17,029**, recovered 11,540, hospitalized 2,221, deaths 748**, tested 161,835*/**
fatality rate 4.4%
mortality rate 131.2 per million
test rate 28.4 per thousand*
*Test kits and reagents are becoming more available, and Minnesota's ability to test is now more than 7,000 people/day. Testing of the general population is beginning in small numbers.
**The measures used by Minnesota have reduced the rate of spread significantly, however, our rate of spread (reflected by the death rate 'curve') appears to be steady.
 
There is more to it, as this is very much a simplification. But I don't want to put too much time in that argument at the moment, so indeed lets agree to disagree.
 
Marcel said:
There is more to it, as this is very much a simplification. But I don't want to put too much time in that argument at the moment, so indeed lets agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

Marcel, I agree there is more to it.

Relax, my friend. No argument from me, at any point. Nothing more than a discussion. I am saddened that you feel we are arguing.

I will take my leave from further discussion...

No need to upset my friends.
 
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Hey Marcel,

The following is from the comments section of the study you refer to: "Prevention of the spread of coronavirus using masks."

"In fact, compared with the control condition, the petri dish viral load was less with a cloth mask for all patients, and in half, was not detectable."

The following is from the study's author "Author's response to the comments" near the end if the page.

"We totally agree with Dr. Camioli's comments indicating that there are no evidence about that surgical masks are ineffective for healthcare workers. In addition, we agree with his opinion that masks may reduce the forward momentum of the virus-spit particles. Our small study did not show surgical or cotton masks have no role to spread SARS-CoV-2 to the environment. We assume that surgical mask may be not equivalent to N95-equivalent high efficient masks for outward spreading especially in coughing COVID-19 patients, while we just completed additional experiment using N95-equivalent masks. We did not show that any kind of masks such as cotton or surgical masks have no role to quantitatively reduce the spread of coughing SARS-CoV-2 to the environment. Based on empirical evidence, masks might shorten the distance of aerosol containing virus (Dr. Camioli's comments), redirect the turbulent jets in less harmful directions (outward protection), and reduce the amount of virus particles from the patients, although the targeted studies using SARS-CoV-2 are lacking."

Also see the following mask vs no mask study, which included 111 test subjects: Leung NHL, Chu DKW, Shiu EYC, Chan K-H, McDevitt JJ, Hau BJP, et al. Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks. Nat Med [Internet]. 2020 Apr 3 [cited 2020 Apr 6]; Available from: "Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks"
 
Yeah nothing is black and white. And I agree that most of these studies are not extensive enough to be a real scientific basis, so they are covering up for that here and don't do hard conclusions. They don't take sides.
And probably for every study I could put here you'll be able to find something with opposite conclusions. Non of the studies I've seen cover all the facets.
F.i the fact that after coughs there is more virus in the outside of the mask then on the inside is an interesting one, especially given the long survival time of the virus on surfaces. There is a study, which I can't find right now which shows that inexperienced people wearing masks will touch that mask more. So they will spread it through their hands, touching surfaces which is the main method for spreading for most flu like viruses anyway. So this will not stop that or even enhance that method of spreading. And we have the psychology factor to consider. I expect the false sense of security will let many to not fully follow the protocols anymore. Considering the evidence, I still believe coughing in your elbow and keeping distance will be way more effective than wearing a cotton mask.

I'm not talking about the N95 masks here. They might have some effect, but even there people need proper training on how to use them. And they won't be as effective as for doctors and surgeons. The outside world is not a controlled environment like a surgical room.
 
Minnesota report, May 19
cases 17,029**, recovered 11,540, hospitalized 2,221, deaths 748**, tested 161,835*/**
fatality rate 4.4%
mortality rate 131.2 per million
test rate 28.4 per thousand*
*Test kits and reagents are becoming more available, and Minnesota's ability to test is now more than 7,000 people/day. Testing of the general population is beginning in small numbers.
**The measures used by Minnesota have reduced the rate of spread significantly, however, our rate of spread (reflected by the death rate 'curve') appears to be steady.
 
Just hoping England doesn't have a second wave in a week or so, beaches and tourist spots were busy yesterday as the temperature was in the mid 20's centigrade, if some of the tv reports and pictures ive seen are true very little social distancing was being observed.
Seen footage of huge queue's just to go through a McDonald's drive through that had reopened !
We are not a well disciplined population sadly.
 
Minnesota report, May 20
cases 17,670**, recovered 12,227, hospitalized 2,308, deaths 777**, tested 167,338*/**
fatality rate 4.4%
mortality rate 136.3 per million
test rate 29.4 per thousand*
*Test kits and reagents are becoming more available, and Minnesota's ability to test is now more than 7,000 people/day. Testing of the general population is beginning in small numbers.
**The measures used by Minnesota have reduced the rate of spread significantly, however, our rate of spread (reflected by the death rate 'curve') appears to be steady.
 
Interesting article on the BBC about a potential treatment for people who suffer severe COVID-19 symptoms. Apparently, a pattern has emerged with more than 70% of patients with severe symptoms also suffer from a significant drop in T-cells within the blood (T-cells are part of the body's immune system to help fight off diseases and infections). The drop in T-cells is in the range 50%-75% which is huge. Essentially, the virus appears to be somehow hindering the body's ability to fight back. The precise mechanism for how COVID-19 achieves this is unknown but, in the meantime, this discovery has led to a trial using a drug that helps boost the body's ability to generate T-cells. The drug has already been safely trialled on patients with sepsis. Here's the article:

Immune clue sparks coronavirus treatment hope

If the trial with COVID-19 patients is successful, this could be a game-changer by providing an ability to test for those who are most at risk, and give ER professionals something to actually fight back against this virus rather that putting people on ventilators and hoping for the best (I know that's not exactly what's happening now...but a good, reliable treatment to help fight the virus has yet to be identified).

Just sharing this glimmer of hope that maybe, just maybe, the smart healthcare professionals of the world are making headway against this virus.
 
lets hope it leads to something more solid
 
Sounds like you've been to California.
 
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