Coronavirus Thread
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Is it wrong that I'm not surprised at all...
Nope. I'm not surprised either. It's why I said it was stupid too keep touting it as a miracle drug in WH press conferences even though medical experts were saying all along there was no proof of it. It's also why I got so upset at someone in our forum telling people to take it even though they are not a medical professional.
To many people from the bottom up think they are experts in things they are not.
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Not sure how accurate this is, but I heard that they were pulling the original paper, because it had some serious flaws.
Who knows, but the point still stands. Don't push things before they are confirmed.
It could be they are concerned about a possible 2nd wave.
We're almost at two weeks with no infections in my region. If they lifted restrictions regionally, and restricted travel between regions (like they initially said) things will be a lot more bearable.
crossing my fingers for you.
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
I have relatives trapped in NZ by CV who have been in Coromandel since the UK locked down and prevented them returning home. Over Easter the population doubled with people who drove from Auckland and Hamilton despite the travel restrictions. The ones who appeared either side of the relatives arrived in the early morning and bragged they left home at 3am to avoid the police.
Do you honestly think those morons would stay in their regions if restrictions were eased?
Maybe ease the restrictions and add the Honduras solution to non-essential travel - your car and all its contents is impounded and you pay storage fees for the rest of the lockdown or your boat and its contents are taken off shore and sunk - would work.
MAYBE the thought of walking home from Coromandel to Auckland or Hamilton would keep these clowns home but I doubt it.
Also there are always this sort of clown.
French police turn back private jet of holidaymakers from UK The first story I saw on this said the organizer told the French police to issue a fine which he would pay and then they must let his group get on the helicopters an go to Cannes.
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MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
There was an interesting analysis on the Australian Broadcasting Corp news by their health expert several nights ago but there was no print version of the story or I would have passed it to Gnomey for his comment and posting by him if he thought it appropriate. It claimed that both CV-19 and Hydroxychloroquine extend one particular segment of the heart beat which would result in a higher risk of death.
DerAdlerIstGelandet's link appears to support that ABC story.
This story is the epitome of what is wrong with the press. First, it seems it was written by a person in high school, and not a very smart one at that. Secondly, the writer did not even delve into to a major problem with the study, because it already confirms her bias. The reports assessment of hydroxychloroquine seems contradictory and scientifically weak. The crux of my assessment is on page 11-12, where the doctors admit that, "hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin." So, basically, sicker patients were prescribed HC or HC+AZ, and a higher percentage of the sicker patients were ventilated and died, whereas less sick patients were not prescribed these drugs and the less sick patients recovered. Profound.
But they explain this away when they concluded that, "the increased risk of overall mortality in the hydroxychloroquine-only group persisted after adjusting for the propensity of being treated with the drug. That there was no increased risk of ventilation in the hydroxychloroquine-only group suggests that mortality in this group might be attributable to drug effects on or dysfunction in non-respiratory vital organ systems." Might be? They are implying that the hydroxychloroquine treatment is killing the patients more than helping. Might be? This conclusion was not supported by any data in the study or any information about these patients, but rather they cited another study that found HC to be "associated with cardiac toxicity. The fact that these patients were sicker when they come to the hospitals is dismissed by a footnote. I thought this was science and that science was supposed to be based on observation, not assumptions. Why aren't lupus or rheumatoid arthritis patients dropping dead with toxic hearts?
This would not be so problematic if they did not contradict themselves. Later in the report, they wrote that, "data from ongoing, randomized controlled studies will prove informative when they emerge. Until then, the findings from this retrospective study suggest caution in using hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized Covid-19 patients, particularly when not combined with azithromycin." From this last bit I concluded that the report is saying that azithromycin is some type of miracle drug that will eliminate the deadly results of hydroxychloroquine.
HC = death? (Remember: Trump, "what do you have to lose?' CNN's mantra, "only your life!")
HC+AZ = a prudent treatment? According to their own numbers the HC+AZ treatment produced the fewest needed ventilations 6.9% and the greatest number of those discharged without ventilation (82.2%)
HC is not a miracle cure, but to say it doesn't work is not scientific because even this study clearly suggests it has a role.
And yet the same thing didn't happen in the Marlborough Sounds. Again, the rest of the country is being punished for a few idiots, enabled by the fact that we've got a 9-5 police force (unless its for drink driving...)
No, sorry, the study by the VA cited in this article.
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
MiTasol
1st Lieutenant
In post 1771 I referred to an Australian ABC report on how Hydroxychloroquine depresses one part of the heart beat.
The presenter is a qualified doctor and an example of his work is his investigative program on scientific fraud and the well-known gynecologist Dr William McBride. The program exposed fraudulent research and led to Dr William McBride being stripped of his medical registration. For those who have never heard of Dr William McBride he is the man who proved that birth defects were linked to thalidamide.
This is the video report - go to 2m40 for the part on how the heart works - Dr Norman Swan looks at coronavirus treatment
As far as I am concerned for all medications - if a Doctor does not prescribe it, do not take it
I think it is also important to remember that certain persons who promote certain treatments have shares in the manufacturers of those treatments.
The presenter is a qualified doctor and an example of his work is his investigative program on scientific fraud and the well-known gynecologist Dr William McBride. The program exposed fraudulent research and led to Dr William McBride being stripped of his medical registration. For those who have never heard of Dr William McBride he is the man who proved that birth defects were linked to thalidamide.
This is the video report - go to 2m40 for the part on how the heart works - Dr Norman Swan looks at coronavirus treatment
As far as I am concerned for all medications - if a Doctor does not prescribe it, do not take it
I think it is also important to remember that certain persons who promote certain treatments have shares in the manufacturers of those treatments.
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ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
Minnesota report, April 20
cases 2,470, recovered 1,202, hospitalized 602, deaths 143, tested 46,850*
fatality rate 5.8%
mortality rate 25 per million
tests rate 8.2 per thousand*
*Test kits are still in short supply, however, at the current time test kit processing is limited more by lack of materials (primarily reagents). Tests are currently being used primarily for suspected COVID-19 cases and first responder/healthcare/medical personnel.
cases 2,470, recovered 1,202, hospitalized 602, deaths 143, tested 46,850*
fatality rate 5.8%
mortality rate 25 per million
tests rate 8.2 per thousand*
*Test kits are still in short supply, however, at the current time test kit processing is limited more by lack of materials (primarily reagents). Tests are currently being used primarily for suspected COVID-19 cases and first responder/healthcare/medical personnel.
But there is the problem, not a single person here is saying that it will not work. Those of us skeptical of it are saying to not tout it as a miracle drug like so many "not so experts" have done. Like it or not, medical experts are saying it is not showing the promise that some are pushing.
Take your choice of news articles and they all pretty much state that. Well I guess it just depends what news supports a person's preconceived beliefs.
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Ding, ding, ding, ding!
Tell him what he has won! You perfectly summarized exactly the crux of the problem here. Why are drugs not tested or proven being pushed so hard, despite many medical experts saying not so fast.
Because thousands of people are dying daily from a novel virus and doctors and medical professions in hospitals want to save people's lives.
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