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In my feeling, this historical incident seems still too 'fresh' for us to view with cool eye.
Timshatz, I see what you ment with that hornet's nest remark.
I do think they were about to surrender, even if there was many faction within Japanese government opposing this. Some would say that the real reason as why Japan surrendered is USSR entering the war, but I think that wasn't only reason.
And this comment brings up the question of why do people always slam Americans over the atom bombs?I don't think you are the one who opened the "hornets nest"...I think it was "comiso90" and his Nanking statement. The topic of the thread was about a Japanese cartoon that showed the human impact of the atomic bombings. I don't know why people always have to justify the action of the atomic bombing by bringing up China (the bombing wasn't suppose to be vengeance it was suppose to end the war...right?). For some reason Americans always want to "gloss over" the horrible impact these bombings had on civilians. Weather or not the atom bomb shortened the war is only part of the reality...it still had a devastating effect on the civilians (and their children) of these citys.
And this comment brings up the question of why do people always slam Americans over the atom bombs?
The Japanese were not prepared to surrender, any student of military history can easily tell you this. The fire bombing of Tokyo and other large cities were horrific and accounted for a tremendous amount of deaths, injuries and displaced civilians that can easily rival both atomic bombs.
And this conventional bombing campaign was going to continue for at least another year. The Allied strategists and Japanese strategists were working on plans that continued well into 1946. (There's been a few threads here that have covered this in depth.)
While the weapons were terrible in thier own right, how terrible would it have been to have seen the casualties of a protracted defense the Japanese had in store for the Allies?
"the bombing wasn't suppose to be vengeance it was suppose to end the war...right?"
Yes, and it took dropping a second one to finally get them to come to terms of unconditional surrender.
again..."off topic". No one was slamming the USA.
My comment was about as off topic as yours was...For some reason Americans always want to "gloss over" the horrible impact these bombings had on civilians...
My comment was about as off topic as yours was
Perhaps...my comment was mostly aimed at the immediate reactions of a couple posts on this thread. Their where a couple of people posting here who's first reaction to the cartoon clip was to bring up Nanking. I found it interesting that some people can't just acknowledge the horrendous nature of the atomic bombing without having to justifie it (as vengence?). And yet I have seen interviews of crew men who where involved in dropping the bomb, who them selfs have commented on how horrible the devastation was.
Well personally I feel it was justified and make no apologies what my country did - I have relatives who fought and were captured by the Japanese Army and seen the end result of their handiwork. My wife's grandfather actually testified against his captors who were later hung for war crimes.
Was the atomic bombings horrendous? Yes. Were they justified? In August 1945 they were.
Additionally I had other relatives who were on their way to Japan at the time of the bombings. They probably would not have been alive today (although very old) if it wasn't for those bombings.
I'll quote Adolf Hitler but will omit two words - "Whoever lights the torch of war can wish for nothing but chaos"
Perhaps the Japanese military should of thought of that in 1941.
BTW you mention some of the crews - Paul Tibbets up until the day he died never had any regrets of what he did and always stated if he was serving in the US military in today's and was faced with the same situation, he wouldn't hesitate to do the same mission as he did August 6, 1945.
It's real simple - for years they denied what that did to civilians and prisoners. As my wife grandfather put it - "what was endured at Hiroshima to many lasted seconds - the suffering at the march will continue for eternity." He survived the Bataan Death March - another event some Japanese denied ever happened.I don't think its really an issue of apologizing... I too feel that it was probably the logical thing for us to do. I just don't understand why people always get so defensive when a Japanese filmmaker puts a human face on the suffering the civilian population endured.
Its not - but also consider the atrocities committed to unarmed civilians and POWs by the Japanese because the accepted culture at the time allowed them to do so. Accept their suffering when they truly "fess up" to what they did, at that point it you will not look "un-American."As far as the bomber crew goes...I don't think you have to voice regret to admit the horrible power and suffering the bombs inflicted. I also don't think its "un-American" or hypocritical to empathize with the suffering of civilians...
It's real simple - for years they denied what that did to civilians and prisoners. As my wife grandfather put it - "what was endured at Hiroshima to many lasted seconds - the suffering at the march will continue for eternity." He survived the Bataan Death March - another event some Japanese denied ever happened.
Its not - but also consider the atrocities committed to unarmed civilians and POWs by the Japanese because the accepted culture at the time allowed them to do so. Accept their suffering when they truly "fess up" to what they did, at that point it you will not look "un-American."
alright i get it, you have bad feelings about japanese, thats your right. i don't see things as "black white".
.... This was a vignette about an event and should be looked at objectively. But it wasn't. Its as if life was wonderful and suddenly big bad meanies ruined it. Theres a backstory to this event and it was totally skipped - just to draw out sympathy. ...
I probably shouldn't, but here goes anyway.
Whether or not a post in this thread is on- or off-topic depends to me on whether or not the topic is the anime and its historical accuracy or the event itself. I don't know that that really got clearly defined but it was almost preordained that there would be a swerve into the event itself.
To look objectively at the anime itself, other than the technical quality of the graphics and sound and whether it accurately portrayed the visual horror of being nuked the only other areas to consider are its context and historical accuracy since it deals with a historical event. Since the technical aspects haven't received much comment that leaves only context and accuracy.
Any discussion of the bombings that portrays them as stand-alone events is at best slanted and totally removes the context. The bombings were the end of the road Japan chose to go down in 1941 and to ignore that is to expose the underlying agenda to portray the U.S. as the aggressors and for that reason it does in fact slam the U.S.. No big surprise that Americans would take offense. To point out what was omitted speaks directly to context and historical accuracy which is appropriate to a discussion of the anime. Had the anime at least in general terms acknowledged that there was a long, brutal war preceding the bombing it would have at least provided a minimally accurate context.
That Americans on the forum get their backs up after seeing the U.S. portrayed as maniacal demons who nuked a peace loving Japan just because it could shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to understand. It's got nothing to do with hating Japan or most of the other reasons posited here. It's got everything to do with selective memory or agenda ignoring the history leading up to the bombings and the patently anti-American slant.
It's maybe a bit of a stretch but think in terms of the Brits being portrayed as hateful, bloodthirsty, vicious sods who gleefully pounded Bismarck to the bottom of the Atlantic with massive loss of life in retribution for Hood instead of steaming alongside and capturing him (taking huge losses in ships and men), waiting for him to surrender (since he was clearly going to lose the battle anyway) or just make a big circle of ships around him to contain him and eventually starve him into surrendering. I suspect you'd get much the same reaction from the Brits to being portrayed this way in the face of the military necessity and impracticality of the other options as you have from Americans in this case.
Well, that's enough (and probably too much). I'll quit before I get into any more trouble.
Gary
Very well said Gary. I actually wrote to the mayor of Nagasaki over the anti-American slant in some of his speeches made about the subject and he was un-yielding in his feelings that the Japanese were totally victimized by US brutality. When presented with facts about the behavior of the Japanese military during WW2, his response was "we tend to remember history in the manner that suits our individual needs."That Americans on the forum get their backs up after seeing the U.S. portrayed as maniacal demons who nuked a peace loving Japan just because it could shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to understand. It's got nothing to do with hating Japan or most of the other reasons posited here. It's got everything to do with selective memory or agenda ignoring the history leading up to the bombings and the patently anti-American slant.