fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Luckily there is good weather coming particulary Sunday is looking good winds around 6 knots.
Do-17 to be salvaged
- Thread starter Thorlifter
- Start date
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Looking forward to seeing some pictures of it after its been raised. Hopefully it comes up in one piece.
- Thread starter
- #23
Thorlifter
Captain
I was just thinking about this today. Thanks for the update.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I agree. I'd been reading about it and they were concerned about the strength of the structure.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm praying it a) comes free from the sand bank without problem, and b) that it breaks surface in one piece, or at least with minimal damage. Given that it does, let's hope the dismantling and transport to Cosford is also trouble free.
With a bit of luck, it might have arrived by the air show, on June 9th, and as I've been shown where the 'poly tunnels' are 'hidden', where de-salination will take place over the next year or so, maybe I can sneak round there and have a peak ..... sshh! I didn't say that!!
With a bit of luck, it might have arrived by the air show, on June 9th, and as I've been shown where the 'poly tunnels' are 'hidden', where de-salination will take place over the next year or so, maybe I can sneak round there and have a peak ..... sshh! I didn't say that!!
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
that and the sand and silt that has settled inside the fuse and wings....that could add up to tons of weight. i would imagine they carefully snake hoses in to openings or cut small holes to vacuum that all out. would be interesting to watch the process...
Terry if you do sneak in, you better bring a camera!
yulzari
Staff Sergeant
I'm glad they are beginning the recovery work. The Goodwin Sands have a habit of exposing lost items then covering them back up again. I recall a WW1submarine that appears from time to time.
Hardly worth trying to get that recovered when the Thames and Meadway estuaries each have a WW2 submarine decaying on the edge of the marshes and Aberlady Bay in West Lothian has two X craft midget submarines rusting in the bay exposed at low tides.
Hardly worth trying to get that recovered when the Thames and Meadway estuaries each have a WW2 submarine decaying on the edge of the marshes and Aberlady Bay in West Lothian has two X craft midget submarines rusting in the bay exposed at low tides.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yep, there are a few wartime ship wrecks which 'show themselves' now and then.
The BBC will be covering the lifting of the Do17 as it happens. I actually don't have a TV (unless one enjoys football or soaps, which I don't, then there's b*gg*r all else to watch in the UK normally!), so I'll try to follow this on the BBC Internet News.
The BBC will be covering the lifting of the Do17 as it happens. I actually don't have a TV (unless one enjoys football or soaps, which I don't, then there's b*gg*r all else to watch in the UK normally!), so I'll try to follow this on the BBC Internet News.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
So when will they actually start to raise it?
From the BBC website today
"A plan to raise the only surviving World War II Dornier 17 bomber from the English Channel has run into difficulties due to bad weather.
Experts salvaging the German aircraft, which is lying in 50ft of water at Goodwin Sands, off the Kent coast, have had to ditch their original strategy.
A cheaper, faster and riskier approach will now take place.
The project has been likened to a modern Mary Rose, the famous Tudor warship raised from the Solent in 1982.
The original scheme to bring up the Dornier 17 - devised by the RAF Museum - was to build an aluminium frame or cradle around the wreck in which to lift it - putting the least possible strain on the fragile aircraft.
Divers were expected to take about three weeks to construct the frame, working down on the sea floor.
But ever since a salvage barge, complete with giant crane, arrived over the wreck site on the afternoon of 3 May, work has been repeatedly interrupted by bad weather.
Time pressure
Fifteen days of diving have been lost and the barge has had to take shelter in the harbour at Ramsgate, Kent on four occasions.
What is more, the salvage team discovered that the wreck, which was thought to be resting entirely on sand and silt, was in fact partly lying on chalk bedrock.
To put the lower struts of the frame in place, divers were having to drill painstakingly through the chalk rather than simply sliding the frame's components through soft sand.
Last week the museum and the specialist diving company doing the work, Seatech, held a crisis meeting.
The budget of more than £500,000 allowed 35 days to complete the project.
Continuing with the original plan would, they estimated, take 50 days - longer if the bad weather returned - and would cost tens of thousands of pounds more.
The RAF Museum told Seatech to adopt a revised plan which involves attaching cables at three points to the aircraft itself - exactly what the experts had hoped to avoid.
All three points are on the strongest part of the airframe - two single-section spars that run the length of both wings.
Since the plane is lying on its back, one cable will pass through its central bomb bay, with the other two running through the undercarriage doors next to the engines on either wing.
'No choice'
Poly tunnel at RAF Museum, Cosford Two polytunnels have been set up at Cosford, where hoses will spray the Dornier with a citric acid solution
The tail of the wreck will also be supported during the lift, and a central beam will be inserted to run from the bomb bay doors back towards the tail section to give the fuselage extra strength.
Divers have discovered that a crack running around a third of the circumference at the point where the fuselage joins the wings has widened in the past two years.
"We're having to rely to a larger degree than we originally planned on the structural integrity of the aircraft," said Ian Thirsk, the RAF Museum's head of collections.
"But we have no choice. We're doing what we can to save a unique and precious heritage asset. If we leave it one thing is certain - it won't be there in a year's time."
The museum is hoping to put the new plan into practice next week, weather permitting.
The Dornier 17 was a mainstay of the German bomber fleets during the Battle of Britain in 1940.
The plane on the Goodwin Sands is believed to be aircraft call-sign 5K-AR, shot down on 26 August that year at the height of the battle by RAF Boulton-Paul Defiant fighters.
If the wreck is successfully raised the RAF Museum plans to transport it by road to its conservation centre at Cosford in the West Midlands, where it will spend more than 18 months being drenched in a solution of water and citric acid to stabilise it and prevent corrosion of the plane's aluminium structure.
It will then go on display at the museum's main base at Hendon in North London."
"A plan to raise the only surviving World War II Dornier 17 bomber from the English Channel has run into difficulties due to bad weather.
Experts salvaging the German aircraft, which is lying in 50ft of water at Goodwin Sands, off the Kent coast, have had to ditch their original strategy.
A cheaper, faster and riskier approach will now take place.
The project has been likened to a modern Mary Rose, the famous Tudor warship raised from the Solent in 1982.
The original scheme to bring up the Dornier 17 - devised by the RAF Museum - was to build an aluminium frame or cradle around the wreck in which to lift it - putting the least possible strain on the fragile aircraft.
Divers were expected to take about three weeks to construct the frame, working down on the sea floor.
But ever since a salvage barge, complete with giant crane, arrived over the wreck site on the afternoon of 3 May, work has been repeatedly interrupted by bad weather.
Time pressure
Fifteen days of diving have been lost and the barge has had to take shelter in the harbour at Ramsgate, Kent on four occasions.
What is more, the salvage team discovered that the wreck, which was thought to be resting entirely on sand and silt, was in fact partly lying on chalk bedrock.
To put the lower struts of the frame in place, divers were having to drill painstakingly through the chalk rather than simply sliding the frame's components through soft sand.
Last week the museum and the specialist diving company doing the work, Seatech, held a crisis meeting.
The budget of more than £500,000 allowed 35 days to complete the project.
Continuing with the original plan would, they estimated, take 50 days - longer if the bad weather returned - and would cost tens of thousands of pounds more.
The RAF Museum told Seatech to adopt a revised plan which involves attaching cables at three points to the aircraft itself - exactly what the experts had hoped to avoid.
All three points are on the strongest part of the airframe - two single-section spars that run the length of both wings.
Since the plane is lying on its back, one cable will pass through its central bomb bay, with the other two running through the undercarriage doors next to the engines on either wing.
'No choice'
Poly tunnel at RAF Museum, Cosford Two polytunnels have been set up at Cosford, where hoses will spray the Dornier with a citric acid solution
The tail of the wreck will also be supported during the lift, and a central beam will be inserted to run from the bomb bay doors back towards the tail section to give the fuselage extra strength.
Divers have discovered that a crack running around a third of the circumference at the point where the fuselage joins the wings has widened in the past two years.
"We're having to rely to a larger degree than we originally planned on the structural integrity of the aircraft," said Ian Thirsk, the RAF Museum's head of collections.
"But we have no choice. We're doing what we can to save a unique and precious heritage asset. If we leave it one thing is certain - it won't be there in a year's time."
The museum is hoping to put the new plan into practice next week, weather permitting.
The Dornier 17 was a mainstay of the German bomber fleets during the Battle of Britain in 1940.
The plane on the Goodwin Sands is believed to be aircraft call-sign 5K-AR, shot down on 26 August that year at the height of the battle by RAF Boulton-Paul Defiant fighters.
If the wreck is successfully raised the RAF Museum plans to transport it by road to its conservation centre at Cosford in the West Midlands, where it will spend more than 18 months being drenched in a solution of water and citric acid to stabilise it and prevent corrosion of the plane's aluminium structure.
It will then go on display at the museum's main base at Hendon in North London."
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I don't like the sound of this - hopefully I'll be proved wrong, but it's wide open to major structural damage. That said, all those involved have had an extremely tough decision to make and, given that at least most of the aircraft can be raised, even with major damage, I believe it's the right decision. If left longer, any recovery would have to be postponed until favourable conditions next year and, as mentioned in the report, it's doubtful if the Dornier would still be recoverable by then, if indeed it still existed as an entity.
At least, with the intended plan suggested, there should be some major, recognisable parts of this very rare, indeed unique aircraft, saved for preservation.
At least, with the intended plan suggested, there should be some major, recognisable parts of this very rare, indeed unique aircraft, saved for preservation.
- Thread starter
- #33
Thorlifter
Captain
The way I see it, is just leave it there until the weather calms down. Not like it's going anywhere and what's another few days or weeks after 70 years.
B-17engineer
Colonel
My opinion, if you're going to raise a downed plane....have respect for the plane and do it the right way. Its no race or competition to get it up. Get it done right.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
The problem is, apart from the funding already expended, there are very few weather 'windows' when such an operation can take place. The original plan was to start the lift this time last year. Unfortunately, not quite enough funding was in place, perhaps a good thing, as the normally (relatively) calm conditions in this area of the Channel were severely disrupted by bad weather, probably a result of the Jet Stream moving south, centering over mid France.
Working underwater in the English Channel, which is also one of, if not the, busiest shipping lanes in the World, is a far cry from undertaking a similar task in a deep lake, and can be extremely rough, even on a 'calm' day.
If they can't get her out now, then it would have to wait until a suitable 'slot' around May or very early June, next year, the time when conditions might be favourable, by which time, according to the surveys, the Dornier will either not exist, having been exposed to the tides and shifting sand erosion, or will be too fragile to attempt a lift. It's only because it was covered by the sand for so long, that it exists at all - another year, and the story will be very different.
The original plan appears to have been disrupted by the discovery of the chalk bed, negating the use of the specially designed lifting cradle. This can still possibly be used - IF funding miraculously appears to extend the operation to allow excavation through the chalk, and IF the weather is calm. In a country which can see every season in one day over recent years, the possibility of the latter happening is very is extremely unlikely !
Working underwater in the English Channel, which is also one of, if not the, busiest shipping lanes in the World, is a far cry from undertaking a similar task in a deep lake, and can be extremely rough, even on a 'calm' day.
If they can't get her out now, then it would have to wait until a suitable 'slot' around May or very early June, next year, the time when conditions might be favourable, by which time, according to the surveys, the Dornier will either not exist, having been exposed to the tides and shifting sand erosion, or will be too fragile to attempt a lift. It's only because it was covered by the sand for so long, that it exists at all - another year, and the story will be very different.
The original plan appears to have been disrupted by the discovery of the chalk bed, negating the use of the specially designed lifting cradle. This can still possibly be used - IF funding miraculously appears to extend the operation to allow excavation through the chalk, and IF the weather is calm. In a country which can see every season in one day over recent years, the possibility of the latter happening is very is extremely unlikely !
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
The lift is under way.
It was hoped to commence the actual lift at around 21.00 hrs (UK time) today. However, sea and wind conditions are stronger than expected, and the actual lift is now planned for around 01.30 hrs (UK time), when it is hoped conditions will be calmer.
The BBC will be following this as it happens, if it does happen, and I'm intending to try to catch it, given my computer will stream the video properly.
I'll post the latest news here, when, or if, I get it.
It was hoped to commence the actual lift at around 21.00 hrs (UK time) today. However, sea and wind conditions are stronger than expected, and the actual lift is now planned for around 01.30 hrs (UK time), when it is hoped conditions will be calmer.
The BBC will be following this as it happens, if it does happen, and I'm intending to try to catch it, given my computer will stream the video properly.
I'll post the latest news here, when, or if, I get it.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Terry. Looking forward to your update.
can be seen here, BBC are going to cut to the lift when the Do17 reaches the surface, expected to be between 1 - 1.30 am uk time
BBC News - One-minute World News
BBC News - One-minute World News
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks for that Karl - makes things easier for all concerned.
seems to have been put off for another week !
hope they get it up in the end.
BBC News - German bomber salvage attempt postponed for a week
hope they get it up in the end.
BBC News - German bomber salvage attempt postponed for a week
