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- #21
fubar57
General
I'm nine years ahead of you in the build Karl. I was checking the photos over and noticed that the inner gear door seems to be the same colour as the lower surface and not aluminumish
**** DONE: GB-47 1:48 Hawker Typhoon FR IB - WW2 D-Day and After – Western Front
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Good work so far George!
Hawker Typhoon EK427 'S'.
Interesting history. According to the AM Form 78 held by RAF Museum, aircraft was only listed as being issued to No.268 Squadron RAF in 1944.
Whilst with No.268 Squadron RAF, it is only recorded once performing an operational sortie with that Squadron, being on 6 October 1944, Tac/R covering the area Zeebrugge Phillipine – excluding Teurnheuzen – coast to Zeebrugge. Uneventful, little activity or movement seen. This was nearing the end of the timeframe when No.268 Squadron RAF was using the Typhoons, basically they were all gone and either passed on to other units in penny packets or returned to 84GSU in the UK by the end of November 1944.
EK427 in this instance was passed on to No.IV(AC) Squadron, which was also a part of 35 (Recce) Wing which also comprised No.II(AC) Squadron and No.268 Squadron.
No.IV(AC) Squadron at the time was primarily equipped with Supermarine Spitfire PR.XIs operating in the high altitude PR role. The news that they were to get a number of ex-268 Typhoons to be used in the low to medium level PR role was greeted with some shock and dismay – their pilots knew the negativity the 268 pilots had towards the type compared to their usual Mustangs.
EK427 first shows up with them on 15 October 1944 being used for two sorties, one in the early morning as a part of a pair conducting a low level PR sortie (2,000 to 3,500ft) using split 5" camera in area of Venlo, then later as a solo sortie later in the morning covering area near Milligen.
It then shows up next on 4 December 1944 as part of a flight of four Typhoons that successfully completed coverage of the Arnhem area at 3,000ft, meeting meagre, accurate light flak during the photo runs. That is the last instance of EK427 being recorded flying operationally with No.IV(AC) Squadron.
Use of the Typhoon operationally with No.IV(AC) Squadron in the remainder of December 1944 and January 1945 is very limited, only about half a dozen sorties in total. Final operational sorties flown using a pair of Typhoons on 2 February 1945, nothing further recorded about them after that.
So given the information contained in both Squadron's ORBs and other records, EK427 was still equipped and using the spit 5inch lens oblique cameras fitted in the port wing between October 1944 and December 1944.
I have not yet found any references to EK427 being passed to any of the Typhoon Squadrons in 146 Wing, which was the other units to receive either pairs or singletons of the FR Typhoons for post-strike coverage. So most likely scenario is that EK427 went direct from No.IV(AC) Squadron sometime in January 1945 to the GSU where it was photographed whilst waiting for reallocation or disposal in March 1945. 35 (Recce) Wing had been experimenting with the forward facing cine camera installations in the inner cannon/camera bay position which would normally be occupied by the 12 inch low angle oblique camera (and a couple of other locations), but there is nothing in the recorded operational sortie details whilst EK427 was operated with either Squadron to show its use with that type of camera fitted operationally. So what you are seeing on the starboard inboard cannon stub is most likely nothing more than a blanking plate after the cannon was removed.
Interesting history. According to the AM Form 78 held by RAF Museum, aircraft was only listed as being issued to No.268 Squadron RAF in 1944.
Whilst with No.268 Squadron RAF, it is only recorded once performing an operational sortie with that Squadron, being on 6 October 1944, Tac/R covering the area Zeebrugge Phillipine – excluding Teurnheuzen – coast to Zeebrugge. Uneventful, little activity or movement seen. This was nearing the end of the timeframe when No.268 Squadron RAF was using the Typhoons, basically they were all gone and either passed on to other units in penny packets or returned to 84GSU in the UK by the end of November 1944.
EK427 in this instance was passed on to No.IV(AC) Squadron, which was also a part of 35 (Recce) Wing which also comprised No.II(AC) Squadron and No.268 Squadron.
No.IV(AC) Squadron at the time was primarily equipped with Supermarine Spitfire PR.XIs operating in the high altitude PR role. The news that they were to get a number of ex-268 Typhoons to be used in the low to medium level PR role was greeted with some shock and dismay – their pilots knew the negativity the 268 pilots had towards the type compared to their usual Mustangs.
EK427 first shows up with them on 15 October 1944 being used for two sorties, one in the early morning as a part of a pair conducting a low level PR sortie (2,000 to 3,500ft) using split 5" camera in area of Venlo, then later as a solo sortie later in the morning covering area near Milligen.
It then shows up next on 4 December 1944 as part of a flight of four Typhoons that successfully completed coverage of the Arnhem area at 3,000ft, meeting meagre, accurate light flak during the photo runs. That is the last instance of EK427 being recorded flying operationally with No.IV(AC) Squadron.
Use of the Typhoon operationally with No.IV(AC) Squadron in the remainder of December 1944 and January 1945 is very limited, only about half a dozen sorties in total. Final operational sorties flown using a pair of Typhoons on 2 February 1945, nothing further recorded about them after that.
So given the information contained in both Squadron's ORBs and other records, EK427 was still equipped and using the spit 5inch lens oblique cameras fitted in the port wing between October 1944 and December 1944.
I have not yet found any references to EK427 being passed to any of the Typhoon Squadrons in 146 Wing, which was the other units to receive either pairs or singletons of the FR Typhoons for post-strike coverage. So most likely scenario is that EK427 went direct from No.IV(AC) Squadron sometime in January 1945 to the GSU where it was photographed whilst waiting for reallocation or disposal in March 1945. 35 (Recce) Wing had been experimenting with the forward facing cine camera installations in the inner cannon/camera bay position which would normally be occupied by the 12 inch low angle oblique camera (and a couple of other locations), but there is nothing in the recorded operational sortie details whilst EK427 was operated with either Squadron to show its use with that type of camera fitted operationally. So what you are seeing on the starboard inboard cannon stub is most likely nothing more than a blanking plate after the cannon was removed.
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- #25
fubar57
General
Much appreciated Colin.
ColFord
Do you have any likely candidates for the lower photo. I've enlarged it as much as possible and can see no sign of cameras under the port wing and I've already removed the cannon on that side. I've bookmarked your page with serial numbers here....Typhoon FR.1b - the Foto Tiffie
ColFord
Do you have any likely candidates for the lower photo. I've enlarged it as much as possible and can see no sign of cameras under the port wing and I've already removed the cannon on that side. I've bookmarked your page with serial numbers here....Typhoon FR.1b - the Foto TiffieThe aircraft in the lower photo in your original post is EK427 S, it is a poor copy - possibly scanned from a book or lo-res thumbnail of the photo that used to be on the IWM website - of the original photo from the full set taken in March 1945 for an ATP series photo. The original photo series of this airframe was the typical ATP series set of photos taken from all angles and were taken in March 1945 after it had notionally been retired from service. A couple more that might be useful for you.
EK427 S March 1945 3:4 Stbd by Colin Ford, on Flickr
EK427 S March 1945 Port Side by Colin Ford, on Flickr
In the top photo, note how the wing leading edge panel inboard of the cut down cannon stub appears to be a replacement panel. Also the port underwing area that the panel that would normally contain the three camera lens, also appears lighter, so my suspicion is that at the time this photo was taken, the original panel and the lens mounts and related ancillaries fixed inside it, may have been removed and replaced with a plain panel when the aircraft was sent for 'disposal'. A bit of simple sheet metal work done at either 4 Sqdn before it left or at the GSU to remove that original modified panel, the mounts etc into 'spares'.
If you don't want to go down the path of getting the Airwaves resin drop in conversion panel, with a bit of carefull drilling, use of suitable sized plastic tubing, etc, you should be able to replicate the general configuration of the panel on the underside of the port wing.
Hawker Typhoon PR conversion, Airwaves SC48053
That Britmodeller thread from 2009 is still a good one, but I think that there is a more recent one with some more information, I'll have to have a look through my past posts there.
In the top photo, note how the wing leading edge panel inboard of the cut down cannon stub appears to be a replacement panel. Also the port underwing area that the panel that would normally contain the three camera lens, also appears lighter, so my suspicion is that at the time this photo was taken, the original panel and the lens mounts and related ancillaries fixed inside it, may have been removed and replaced with a plain panel when the aircraft was sent for 'disposal'. A bit of simple sheet metal work done at either 4 Sqdn before it left or at the GSU to remove that original modified panel, the mounts etc into 'spares'.
If you don't want to go down the path of getting the Airwaves resin drop in conversion panel, with a bit of carefull drilling, use of suitable sized plastic tubing, etc, you should be able to replicate the general configuration of the panel on the underside of the port wing.
Hawker Typhoon PR conversion, Airwaves SC48053
That Britmodeller thread from 2009 is still a good one, but I think that there is a more recent one with some more information, I'll have to have a look through my past posts there.
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- #27
fubar57
General
Again thank you. I did look briefly at the conversion but the one I saw was about $70CAN with shipping. I'll go with the repanelled option and figure out how to replicate it
dneid
Staff Sergeant
Oooooo, another Tiffy. I am truly considering adding a 2nd bird to the build.... the Eduard Tempest. But, I cannot commit yet given I am new to the ZM world.
And I knew I had a better version of the front view stored somewhere on my many hard drives of research material.
EK427 S March 1945 ATP Front by Colin Ford, on Flickr
HTH.
HTH.
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- #30
fubar57
General
Great. So these panels would be lighter?
It looks like the wells and inner doors are painted the same as the underside....
....while the struts look darker than aluminum or possibly dark aluminum
The yellow leading edge stripe seems to go as far as the inner gun...
...while the instructions show it stops at the outer gun...
The yellow leading edge stripe seems to go as far as the inner gun...
Crimea_River
Marshal
Trust the photos over kit instructions. I read all of Chris Thomas' posts at BM and he maintains inner gear doors and wheel wells were painted silver on all Tiffies.
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- #32
fubar57
General
Insides of gear doors and wells shall be aluminium.
Note too in the port side view photo that i posted, the differences in paint tones near the tail where the Sky id band had been overpainted.
Regarding the yellow leading edge id stripe, in going over all the photos of the FR Typhoons that I have, they seem a "mixed bag", some the stripe finishes at the outer cannon faining, others like EK427 it finishes at the inner cannon fairing. A quick survey shows that there is no pattern based on the production batch or serial of the subject aircraft, so may have been something done at GSU or MU level based on directives at the time aircraft were converted to FR configuration.
For the replacement panels, for my eye, I would go with a 'clean, lighter' MSG.
Regarding the yellow leading edge id stripe, in going over all the photos of the FR Typhoons that I have, they seem a "mixed bag", some the stripe finishes at the outer cannon faining, others like EK427 it finishes at the inner cannon fairing. A quick survey shows that there is no pattern based on the production batch or serial of the subject aircraft, so may have been something done at GSU or MU level based on directives at the time aircraft were converted to FR configuration.
For the replacement panels, for my eye, I would go with a 'clean, lighter' MSG.
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- #34
fubar57
General
Appreciated. The tail looks to have a darker green as well.
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- #35
fubar57
General
Starting to look like a Typhoon now. The wings needed a little lift to get a seamless fit but didn't affect the dihedral.
The tailplanes, which when fit individually were perfect but they are meant to interlock. The halves are on separate sprues. On one sprue they are labelled Q2 and Q3 and on the other sprue they are labelled Q3 and Q2.
Try as I might I couldn't get them to lock into place so I cut off two prongs and it all slid together
I'll be very interested in Andy's take on this when he get to this stage. I'm sure they'll just slide into place. I did another test fit of the windscreen when I got to this stage. I taped the canopy into place and then put the windscreen into place. This showed a much better but not quite perfect fit. A bit of white glue should fair it in
The tailplanes, which when fit individually were perfect but they are meant to interlock. The halves are on separate sprues. On one sprue they are labelled Q2 and Q3 and on the other sprue they are labelled Q3 and Q2.
Looks good
Nicely done so far George!
Crimea_River
Marshal
I'm afraid you won't get to see that Geo as I'm using the larger resin tailplanes provided with the "Sharkteeth" version of this kit. It appears these won't be an easy fit either as there's some surgery involved to remove the tailplane fairing.
BTW, most other builds of this kit I looked at had the same issue with the cockpit side panels creating a gap at the centre seam that needs filling. The recommendation is to make sure that the side panels are flush with the fuselage surfaces and fill the gap rather than trying to eliminate the gap and then doing surface filling. You took the right approach I think.
Donivanp
Major
Interesting inputs. As I have two.
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