Doras Galoras - Unofficial GB

[T Bolt]

I did a lot of work over the last few days on the complicated paint scheme on the underside of the wings and here is a sequence of pictured showing it.
1. Masking for the R:M 76
2. RLM 76
3. Masking for the RLM 63
4. RLM 63
5. Masking for the NMF
6. Old silver sprayed
7. Finished wings after bright silver

 

[rochie]

looks great Glenn, am always impressed with how you do NMF panels

 

[Wayne Little]

@Wayne - the Japo does not explicitly mention the outer wing panel, but does illustrate it as a neutral grey.

And on that point, the use of a Neutral Grey in Repair of late war a/c is not isolated, hence my theory that the outboard wing section and beneath the RH Balkenkruez is RLM77 or Neutral Grey; at least if you see what Japo (and I) see in the images of this a/c. EE-Crandall has a very different (more traditional) interpretation of the upper surface and fuselage camo (choosing to stay with RLM82/83 across the wings, fuselage and tail).

But, back to the Neutral Grey for a second - you'll also see a neutral grey on D-9 211164 covering repairs and there is at least one other WNr that eludes my brain ATM. Not to mention the Neutral Grey 'wedge' we see on MANY late D-9's, the D-11's, A-8's, etc.

The scheme I have mapped out for my "Red 4" (when I get around to it) is RLM83 on the power egg, continuing in a noticablely wavey demarcation, unbroken down the fuselage and around the canopy (just had a look at my notes and the RLM81 'under' RLM83 was a different a/c) over RLM82 which had originally been applied on fuselage. The RLM82 remains visible on the fuselage below the RLM83 from from a position beneath the canopy and wrapping around the spine (and originally as far as the Fuselage Extension) of the a/c. Wings were in the pretty standard RLM82/83 pattern.

Assuming my repair theory to be correct, when the tail unit was replaced, this unit was generally overall RLM76 (seemingly a slightly lighter shade, with a natural metal extension, as was common by this stage of the war, considering most operators would have applied a Rumpfband over it anyway), so once fitted, it was mottled with the 'Chocolate/Browner' version of RLM81; this was continued up the rear spine of the a/c and over a lot of the existing RLM82; there appears to be a light overspray of a colour to about halfway down the rear fuselage, from the leading edge of the Horizontal Tailplane, upto the rear edge of the Hakenkruez - this could be the same RLM81. I am of the beleif that while the Horizontal Tailplanes were RLM82/83, like the wings, the roots of the upper surfaces were also painted (for the first few inches) in the RLM81 also - its something I *THINK* I see in the images of the a/c. There also appears to be sprays of this colour down both the forward and rear edges of the fuselage extention (again suggesting a repair at some point)... Adding additional weight to the repair theory (at unit level) is the early style canopy, which would NOT have been a factory fitting at this stage of the things!

Of course I must chip in here and point out the alternate theory that this rear spine/tail colour is lighter/fresher RLM83 variant (or even one of the Greener RLM81's), more like the EE-Crandall interpretation.

Damage to the wings resulted in a patch of Neutral Grey on the RH outer most wing panel and a replacement wing-cap in RLM83. Both ailerons were replaced also, and like the wing-cap, remained in solid RLM83. There is also a patch of Fuselage, in the Lower-Right quadrant of the LEFT fuselage Balkenkruez that is in the same grey as the outer wing panel. Being a repair, the a/c Werk Nummer was repainted in White on the Green Fin-cap - some claim this number could in fact be 220010 or 220007, but I have never seen anything to confirm either; the known photo's that show a complete, 6 digit WNr are not clear enough to decipher anything more than there being a complete 6 digit WNr.

Lower surfaces as most know are RED over everything - I would suggest a very slight, barely noticiable darker tint to the red on the Leading Half of the wings, where the red would have over painted the darker RLM75 or 83; a Finely feathered/sprayed edge is visible on better documented a/c, so I do not see why this a/c would be any different. I also feel the Red and White of the lower surfaces are a gloss or semi-gloss finish, as are all the JV44 specific markings. The VfS 'White <58' tactical code is overpainted in a thin spray of a slightly lighter RLM76 also, before the Red 4 was applied.

As for the JV44 a/c, I consider "Red 4" to be the least clear of 'the well-known four' a/c (obviously excepting of "Red 2", which is whole other story) for the reason that I consider the a/c to have sustained a level of damage that necessitated the replacement of a number of parts (probably at Unit level, when in service with VfS) and the repainting of these repairs. Definately makes life interesting, doesn't it!


Dan


Oh and no progress on the D-15 or the Cylong Raider here But I did spent a small fortune on more Alclad this evening. I just LOOOOOOOVE the way it goes on over a black base!

i will review your comments Dan.. Maybe a grey out there on the wing....I'm not so sure....

Scratching Brown 18 from my short list...and then there were 3 choices.....leaning toward Black 10 or White 12....

 

[Zaggy]

@Wayne - please do For me, thats one of the really interesting Fw 190D-ism's; the different interpretations of the camo. You just need to look at Japo vs EE; some a/c they totally agree on, others could not be more different - and then you interject your own thoughts and theories on top of that and you can come up with some interesting stuff! Like I have my 601088 'Black <1+~' in RLM74/75/76 (based upon the trace evidence of a WHITE fuselage Balkenkruez), but because its a 'repaired' a/c, all bets are off regarding coinsistency. The 1970's pre-restoration photo's seem to show some RLM83 on the front of it and the wing I still beleive was replaced at some point, with an F-series wing.

Regardless, the model is sitting there, painted in what I think was its original RLM74/75/76 scheme, waiting for me to decide how to go about the 'repair' over spray, which is primarily info about the wing upper surfaces. Beliveing they're F-series wings (they have the Radial Engine Exhaust fairing, for example). RLM 74/75 uppers is fine, BUT if they oversprayed part of the fuselage (as seems the case) with RLM83, what did they do with the wings? The period photos are a tough to evaluate!

But yeah, re: 2200?? "Red 4", I can see the 'light colour' on the wing panel. Leaving it bare metal doesnt make much sense, RLM82 isnt light enough, so the only colour that makes sense is one of either RLM76/77 (as seen in some D-9 wing camo's), RLM84* (the mysterious 'Sky Green' colour) or the Neutral Grey colour that pops up around the end of the war (which could well be bad mixing of RLM76)... I guess an alternative is RLM02?


Dan

 

[Crimea_River]

Love this discussion. I can only add my opinion that there's definitely a light patch of colour evident on the outer wing of Red 4.

Glenn, great work on that wing underside!

Here's my Black 6 as it looks today with the cockpit and engine plug glued to the port fuselage half. This took some serious checking of fit, trimming and clamping to get to this point. Anyone working with the Eduard kits needs to be careful here as there are lots of parts that need to line up correctly. To get the gun deck to line up flush with the top of the cut out for the cowl, I had to trim away some of the thickness of the roof plate over the pedals as it sat too high on the lower instrument panel. Even after this was done, there was a bit of twist between the pit and the plug that was fixed with lots of clamping and glue in strategic spots. Hopefully all will be good when I mate the other half!

 

[woody]

Nice work Andy and Glenn. I went with open flaps almost time for the tail section i still need to paint seat cushion.

 

[Zaggy]

Well, since I seem to be 'officially' part of this now, I thought I may as well illustrate the plan and demonstrate the progress. Firsly, the goal - the Focke-Wulf/Roland/Daimler Benz Fw 190D-15 'prototype' series. In March 1945, fifteen GFW built Fw 190D-9 were released directly to Daimler-Benz for conversion; the only photographically documented, completed (though destroyed by the retreating Germans) a/c know was 601286. The photographic evidence suggest the a/c most likely used common treibwerk components and accessories to the Ta 152C, so that logic generates the following profile:

Alas, while in the real world attaching a Ta 152C engine and treibwerk to the front of a Fw 190D wasnt too hard, in 1:48 its a totally different story; you'd think the differences wouldn't be that great. In hindsignt, if I were to attempt this again, I wouldn't be using the nose off a Ta 152C; I'd be using a D-11 fuselage and chopping it up slightly. But that's be side the point, because the path has already been chosen!

So, since joining this little challenge, the project has changed slightly; I've opened up the whell wells up, built a firewall, engine and modified some aftermarket exhausts, etc:

Now while its rather hard to make the contours out ATM (due to the sectioning and re-shaping, filling and fixing - nothing is in the same colour, which distorts how things appear), this what the thing looks like with the nose taped on:

I'm waiting to hit the nose with a primer-filler (when the cylon raider is primed), then I'll finish boxing in the exhasts, install the engine and attach the fuselage... Then the real fun starts - smoothing it all over, replacing the fuselage braces, etc...


Dan

 

[Crimea_River]

Looking good Dan.

 

[T Bolt]

A lot of nice work going on here everyone

 

[meatloaf109]

I have been watching everyone's progress, sometimes it is hard to keep them seperate. But I have to say, Great work, all 'round!

 

[Crimea_River]

Yeah, I was thinking the same Paul. This format of everyone posting in the same thread can have its drawbacks but I think it works OK.

 

[T Bolt]

I don't know it you noticed but I started putting "Blue 12" in the title box to help identify it when making an update. Things were beginning to get a little confusing. Maybe it would help if everyone did it when they posted an update.

 

[Crimea_River]

Good idea Glenn. I'll start doing that too.

 

[Wayne Little]

Certainly some fine work going on...good idea Glenn...hopefully i will remember....soon as I get started.....this week....

 

[rochie]

nice work everyone !

Andy you are sooooo correct about the fitting of the internals on that Dora kit, lots of care needs to be taken !

great idea Glenn, will do just that when i start my Dora

 

[lostinhull]

Good work everyone

Thanks for the discussion on paint schemes - I've removed the metal and taken it back to a grey colour for now whilst I complete the weathering and panel lines.

I agree about the post title, should add a degree of organisation to proceedings

Mind you, if Red 4 provokes this kind of analysis I dread to think where I'll end up with Yellow 10

 

[rochie]

Good work everyone

Thanks for the discussion on paint schemes - I've removed the metal and taken it back to a grey colour for now whilst I complete the weathering and panel lines.

I agree about the post title, should add a degree of organisation to proceedings

Mind you, if Red 4 provokes this kind of analysis I dread to think where I'll end up with Yellow 10

some how i missed you were doing yellow 10, i have the eagle editions yellow 10 book so if there is anything in it that would help just shout

 

[lostinhull]

Cheers Karl - any opinions welcome really.

The only source material I have on the Dora is what comes with the kit.

I'd planned to do the Gruenherz box so somewhat neglected the Dora - this thread caught me with my pants down somewhat

 

[tigerdriver]

Well after that rarest of things these days, an actual ebay bargain, I have a Eduard D11 D13 dual pack on its way, so looks like I am in .. and at the more imaginative end of the camo schemes at that .

I will do some reading while I await delivery and put the formal kick off post up when I have settled on a subject .

 

[Crimea_River]

Great news Dave. I'll move you from the "On the fence" category in Post 1.