Fear of Flying or Vertigo
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evangilder
"Shooter"
I would say if you don't like cliff sides and things like that, then there is a bit of a fear of heights. There could certainly be a lack of control, but that would also be true on a warbird when someone else is flying. But the difference is that you can see the cockpit and who is flying the planes in the warbird, where there is limited to no contact whatsoever with a flight crew on a commercial flight.
When I first started flying in warbirds, it took some time to get used to turbulence, close formation flying (sometimes wing overlap!
), and the creaks and moans of old airplanes. Did I get nervous? yes. Have I gotten used to it? yes. Do I sometimes still get spooked? Yes.
I think it is fairly normal to be somewhat nervous and/or apprehensive when flying. As long as it doesn't become overwhelming or incapacitating, it is probably something that can be overcome. It may take a few flights with everything normal to get over. But as a precaution, you might want to get your ears checked. Sometimes, inner ear disturbances can cause disorientation and/or vertigo when the pressure changes, especially in airplanes. That can lead you to feel uneasy as well.
One other thing to consider is that you may be sensitive to elevated levels of EMF (Electro-Magnetic Fields), which will be stronger in commercial aircraft than warbirds because of newer avionics, radar, etc. There are no medically recognized treatments for it. Considering EMF sensitivity is different for different people, it is something not well understood. But some suggest that taking antioxidants and increasing vitamin C, E and selenium can help to alleviate it a bit (I'm not a medical practitioner, so I am only going on what I have read and overheard from family conversations).
Just my $.02
When I first started flying in warbirds, it took some time to get used to turbulence, close formation flying (sometimes wing overlap!
), and the creaks and moans of old airplanes. Did I get nervous? yes. Have I gotten used to it? yes. Do I sometimes still get spooked? Yes. I think it is fairly normal to be somewhat nervous and/or apprehensive when flying. As long as it doesn't become overwhelming or incapacitating, it is probably something that can be overcome. It may take a few flights with everything normal to get over. But as a precaution, you might want to get your ears checked. Sometimes, inner ear disturbances can cause disorientation and/or vertigo when the pressure changes, especially in airplanes. That can lead you to feel uneasy as well.
One other thing to consider is that you may be sensitive to elevated levels of EMF (Electro-Magnetic Fields), which will be stronger in commercial aircraft than warbirds because of newer avionics, radar, etc. There are no medically recognized treatments for it. Considering EMF sensitivity is different for different people, it is something not well understood. But some suggest that taking antioxidants and increasing vitamin C, E and selenium can help to alleviate it a bit (I'm not a medical practitioner, so I am only going on what I have read and overheard from family conversations).
Just my $.02
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
I still have a fear of heights Gary I hate climbing high ladders but Im ok on aircraft many years ago I was determined to overcome my fear of heights so i thought kill or cure and did a parachute jump from Biggin Hill I found out that in my case relating to height from a plane or parachute is totally different than when Im up a ladder. I was told by a climber freind its to do with vanishing points an object that is attached to the ground eg a ladder has a deffinate vanishing point that I could relate to were as an aircraft lacks this Im no head doctor and as I say my fear of ladders still persists despite an atempt at a parachute cure
I susspect the guys on here Like Eric and co will shed more light on the subject than I can but you certainly have my sympathys mate
Lee
I susspect the guys on here Like Eric and co will shed more light on the subject than I can but you certainly have my sympathys mate
Lee
- Thread starter
- #4
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I suffer from something similiar, although how it came about is much different.
A number of years ago, I was poisoned by chemical exposure that devestated my system. To make a long story short, I have great difficulties with heights now and it's most likely associated with anxiety.
I hate it, and it's taken years for me to will myself back to being "normal" (as if I ever was), but you know what I mean.
It's hard to describe, but where I used to be able to hang over the side of a 3 storey building to repair a light fixture, I can't even climb an extension ladder now, without getting freaked out (cold sweats, heart pounding, mouth going dry...all that fun stuff). The chemical imbalance triggered something that makes me get anxious like mad...and I've been told that sometimes, as a person's system changes with age (oh yeah, it's inevitable), it can bring on symptoms of anxiety as well.
The docs all wanted to load me down with meds, and I declined, figuring that I didn't need them before and I wasn't about to start. I just use brute-force mind over matter to beat that crap...it's not easy, but it works.
A number of years ago, I was poisoned by chemical exposure that devestated my system. To make a long story short, I have great difficulties with heights now and it's most likely associated with anxiety.
I hate it, and it's taken years for me to will myself back to being "normal" (as if I ever was), but you know what I mean.
It's hard to describe, but where I used to be able to hang over the side of a 3 storey building to repair a light fixture, I can't even climb an extension ladder now, without getting freaked out (cold sweats, heart pounding, mouth going dry...all that fun stuff). The chemical imbalance triggered something that makes me get anxious like mad...and I've been told that sometimes, as a person's system changes with age (oh yeah, it's inevitable), it can bring on symptoms of anxiety as well.
The docs all wanted to load me down with meds, and I declined, figuring that I didn't need them before and I wasn't about to start. I just use brute-force mind over matter to beat that crap...it's not easy, but it works.
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
I got one of those next month
I suspect he'll just stick a needle in my head and tell me its the kindest thing to do
Matt308
Glock Perfection
GrauGeist may have hit it on the head. I suffer from anxiety attacks that I attribute to leaving home and large crowds (e.g., airports/airplanes). It got so bad that I would literally find myself getting nauseated a week before I had to leave. The day I had to leave, I literally would make myself physically ill (sweats, puking, etc).
I sympathize with you brother. Modern air travel sucks from the moment you leave your house. There is nothing even remotely fun about it. Flying isn't your problem I would suspect.
I sympathize with you brother. Modern air travel sucks from the moment you leave your house. There is nothing even remotely fun about it. Flying isn't your problem I would suspect.
I doubt that it is vertigo. I have experienced vertigo in mission flight one time. Pretty scary, but avoidable if you know what to do. It happened to me on a IFR flight, I should not have been staring at the cloud formations!
BikerBabe
Senior Master Sergeant
I'm watching and reading along, because it's a bit of a problem for me too.
I don't mind (that much *snort*) to stand on a tall ladder as long as I've got someone to hold onto the ladder itself, or I can see the ground, but tall buildings makes me dizzy, and planes makes my fear of flying pop up.
And fairground rides of the wilder kind can really make me sick because of me losing my sense of direction, which can really make me vomit and feel physically ill.
The funny thing is, that when I was a kid, I went flying with my father in a tiny Cessna sports plane, and that was just fun and a cool, great experience.
Later, when my ex and I had to fly from Stockholm and back home to Copenhagen a few years ago, I almost had to dig out my finger nails from the poor guy's thigh as we took off and went flying.
The ironic thing is, that that as soon as we approached the airport (Kastrup), I relaxed and my fear was completely gone. *scratches head* And I know that takeoffs and landings are probably the most dangerous part of a flight, that's why I wonder abot my own reaction...
And now that I think about it, it might have something to do with the fact that I react really badly to stress and stressful situations, which is something I've been having problems with ever since 1993, where a lot of bad stuff happened in my life, and I went totally down with anxiety attacks and PTSD. (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome)
I got help and I live a normal life today, but as I mentioned, I react very badly to stress, so my thought is:
If you're stressed, you might as well react because of that, in stressful situations like flying and getting on top of a ladder, or whatever might kick your fear of heights into Action-mode.
That's the bad thing.
The good thing is that something can be done about it, and you can get rid of that fear and/or stress, if that's your problem - ask a phys how he/she can help you, as I won't recommend a life dictated by fear. I've been there, it's no fun at all.
So: Yes, I'm also afraid of flying, but if I get the chance I'd go flying, because I'm stubborn, temperamental and pig-headed enough not to let that %¤%¤ fear dictate my life! *growls*.
I know I'll probably get the chance at the air show in Roskilde in august this year, so if I've got the money, I certainly wouldn't mind a ride in the danish DC-3 that sells rides that weekend - I know I'll probably be both terrified and exhilariated, but it would be something. O man, it would.
But a helicopter? No way, it hasn't got any wings!
Anyway: Thanks for starting this thread, there's a lot of good input here, of which I noticed that the advice of getting a physical check-up is a good thing, that's something I'd like to do - especially my ears and my sense of balance and direction, as I know that that can be a bit of a slight problem with me.
Just ask my parents, who's been to the ER with me a lot of times when I was younger, because I was (- and is!) clumsy.
I hope you get the right help to figure out what can be done, and how to get rid of your fear - life is so much better without too much fear.
I don't mind (that much *snort*) to stand on a tall ladder as long as I've got someone to hold onto the ladder itself, or I can see the ground, but tall buildings makes me dizzy, and planes makes my fear of flying pop up.
And fairground rides of the wilder kind can really make me sick because of me losing my sense of direction, which can really make me vomit and feel physically ill.
The funny thing is, that when I was a kid, I went flying with my father in a tiny Cessna sports plane, and that was just fun and a cool, great experience.
Later, when my ex and I had to fly from Stockholm and back home to Copenhagen a few years ago, I almost had to dig out my finger nails from the poor guy's thigh as we took off and went flying.
The ironic thing is, that that as soon as we approached the airport (Kastrup), I relaxed and my fear was completely gone. *scratches head* And I know that takeoffs and landings are probably the most dangerous part of a flight, that's why I wonder abot my own reaction...
And now that I think about it, it might have something to do with the fact that I react really badly to stress and stressful situations, which is something I've been having problems with ever since 1993, where a lot of bad stuff happened in my life, and I went totally down with anxiety attacks and PTSD. (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome)
I got help and I live a normal life today, but as I mentioned, I react very badly to stress, so my thought is:
If you're stressed, you might as well react because of that, in stressful situations like flying and getting on top of a ladder, or whatever might kick your fear of heights into Action-mode.
That's the bad thing.
The good thing is that something can be done about it, and you can get rid of that fear and/or stress, if that's your problem - ask a phys how he/she can help you, as I won't recommend a life dictated by fear. I've been there, it's no fun at all.
So: Yes, I'm also afraid of flying, but if I get the chance I'd go flying, because I'm stubborn, temperamental and pig-headed enough not to let that %¤%¤ fear dictate my life! *growls*.
I know I'll probably get the chance at the air show in Roskilde in august this year, so if I've got the money, I certainly wouldn't mind a ride in the danish DC-3 that sells rides that weekend - I know I'll probably be both terrified and exhilariated, but it would be something. O man, it would.
But a helicopter? No way, it hasn't got any wings!
Anyway: Thanks for starting this thread, there's a lot of good input here, of which I noticed that the advice of getting a physical check-up is a good thing, that's something I'd like to do - especially my ears and my sense of balance and direction, as I know that that can be a bit of a slight problem with me.
Just ask my parents, who's been to the ER with me a lot of times when I was younger, because I was (- and is!) clumsy.
I hope you get the right help to figure out what can be done, and how to get rid of your fear - life is so much better without too much fear.
I
But a helicopter? No way, it hasn't got any wings!
Yeah but you have a great chance of landing a helicopter if there are problems, because it has not wings. Instead you have those fast turning things on top called rotors!
Seriously, I crewed them for 6 years and even had a dual engine failure on take off. Put the bird right down on the ground as if we were actually landing.
BikerBabe
Senior Master Sergeant
Yeah but you have a great chance of landing a helicopter if there are problems, because it has not wings. Instead you have those fast turning things on top called rotors!
Seriously, I crewed them for 6 years and even had a dual engine failure on take off. Put the bird right down on the ground as if we were actually landing.
Thanks for the input Adler, but we're talking something very illogical here - feelings.
And the thing hasn't got any wings!!!!
That's not natural!
Me NO like!!!
(Told you it was illogical, right?
)
Thanks for the input Adler, but we're talking something very illogical here - feelings.
And the thing hasn't got any wings!!!!
Yeah but you have nothing to worry about. A helo is so ugly that it is repelled from the earth!
BikerBabe
Senior Master Sergeant
Yeah but you have nothing to worry about. A helo is so ugly that it is repelled from the earth!
I'll accept that explanation as being just exactly as logical as my own. But I still don't like helicopters...*glances sideways and very suspiciously at a low passing traffic helicopter in the danish evening sky*...*mutters*...no wings...*pout*
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
lol BB...I'm with you there.
I've logged countless hours in a wide range of fixed-wing aircraft in all conditions, and I'll take a fixed-wing over a rotary-wing any time...
Nothing against you at all Adler, or any helo-driver for that matter...thier safety record speaks for themselves, but it's the "illusion" that there's no wings that makes me highly suspicious of 'em
In all honesty, a person can be killed on a bicycle, so I know there's no real logic to it!
I've logged countless hours in a wide range of fixed-wing aircraft in all conditions, and I'll take a fixed-wing over a rotary-wing any time...
Nothing against you at all Adler, or any helo-driver for that matter...thier safety record speaks for themselves, but it's the "illusion" that there's no wings that makes me highly suspicious of 'em
In all honesty, a person can be killed on a bicycle, so I know there's no real logic to it!
BikerBabe
Senior Master Sergeant
lol BB...I'm with you there.
I've logged countless hours in a wide range of fixed-wing aircraft in all conditions, and I'll take a fixed-wing over a rotary-wing any time...
Nothing against you at all Adler, or any helo-driver for that matter...thier safety record speaks for themselves, but it's the "illusion" that there's no wings that makes me highly suspicious of 'em
In all honesty, a person can be killed on a bicycle, so I know there's no real logic to it!
Hæhæh GG, to paraphrase you: I'm with you there.
And about logic:
Fear is a feeling. Feelings has got their own logic, which has nothing to do with "brain"-logic.
Or: That's how I see it. I hope you get what I mean, which is a little different from what I've written...or something.
In other words: Don't read what I write, read what I mean.
*sigh*...christ, why does being a human being have to be so darned...illogical??? *broad grin*
Maestro
Master Sergeant
I suffered the same kind of... erhm... sickness, back in my childhood. Each time I was standing on a cliff (or high balcony), I could feel my legs getting weak. It was only an illusion, but an unpleasant one.
Plus, the fact that my mother never wanted me to climb on an airplane in a Grade 4 school trip (take off, fly around the airport and land, simple, right ?) didn't help...
But I've always been interrested in warbirds which led me to also get interrested into commercial flights (although my knowledge on that side of flying is rather limited). I also watched a documentary about crash-landings and survival... which helped me to "whipe out" that fear... I took my first flight in September 2008, when I went to London. I never felt fear the whole time I was in the plane (a British Airways flight), although I felt a little anxious at the airport. Damn... I even felt asleep on my way back to Canada.
Here are a few tips I can give you that I learned through the years... May be it will help you too.
1 - Always fly with a company that you trust. (Keep in mind that your life is in the hands of the pilots/crew members.)
2 - Never get on a plane that belongs to a company you can't spell the name of.
3 - Get information on flight companies... I read somewhere that British Airways is the leader in safety with 0.52 accidents by 1,000,000 flights (the term "accident" here include all types of problems, going from a simple bolt that broke up to a complete crash), Swiss Air was also a close second in that study.
4 - Sit as close as possible to an emergency exit. If you cannot get a seat in the row of seats where the emergency exit is located, try to get a seat in a row next to it. In that case, count the number of rows going from your seat to the closest exit with your hand (so you can find your way out if the airplane fills up with smoke).
5 - Keep in mind that the safety belt is not a car belt... It doesn't open up the same way. Many peoples died in crashes because they forgot that simple fact and were trying to open it up "car-like".
6 - If you crash on land, exit the plane by crawling on the ground. (It may sound stupid, but some peoples forget that smoke is lighter than air and accumulates near the roof.)
7 - If you crash into the sea, inflate your life jacket once you are outside of the plane. (Once again it may sound stupid, but some peoples forget that once the life jacket is inflated, you float ! So if you're still in the plane, you're gonna be trapped and will drown like a rat.)
8 - Always read the safety manual on the plane you are flying in ! Safety rules may change with companies.
Now, if you follow those simple rules, I guess that your fear will desappear... Or at least you will be much less fearful in a plane.
Hope it helps.
Plus, the fact that my mother never wanted me to climb on an airplane in a Grade 4 school trip (take off, fly around the airport and land, simple, right ?) didn't help...
But I've always been interrested in warbirds which led me to also get interrested into commercial flights (although my knowledge on that side of flying is rather limited). I also watched a documentary about crash-landings and survival... which helped me to "whipe out" that fear... I took my first flight in September 2008, when I went to London. I never felt fear the whole time I was in the plane (a British Airways flight), although I felt a little anxious at the airport. Damn... I even felt asleep on my way back to Canada.
Here are a few tips I can give you that I learned through the years... May be it will help you too.
1 - Always fly with a company that you trust. (Keep in mind that your life is in the hands of the pilots/crew members.)
2 - Never get on a plane that belongs to a company you can't spell the name of.
3 - Get information on flight companies... I read somewhere that British Airways is the leader in safety with 0.52 accidents by 1,000,000 flights (the term "accident" here include all types of problems, going from a simple bolt that broke up to a complete crash), Swiss Air was also a close second in that study.
4 - Sit as close as possible to an emergency exit. If you cannot get a seat in the row of seats where the emergency exit is located, try to get a seat in a row next to it. In that case, count the number of rows going from your seat to the closest exit with your hand (so you can find your way out if the airplane fills up with smoke).
5 - Keep in mind that the safety belt is not a car belt... It doesn't open up the same way. Many peoples died in crashes because they forgot that simple fact and were trying to open it up "car-like".
6 - If you crash on land, exit the plane by crawling on the ground. (It may sound stupid, but some peoples forget that smoke is lighter than air and accumulates near the roof.)
7 - If you crash into the sea, inflate your life jacket once you are outside of the plane. (Once again it may sound stupid, but some peoples forget that once the life jacket is inflated, you float ! So if you're still in the plane, you're gonna be trapped and will drown like a rat.)
8 - Always read the safety manual on the plane you are flying in ! Safety rules may change with companies.
Now, if you follow those simple rules, I guess that your fear will desappear... Or at least you will be much less fearful in a plane.
Hope it helps.
Glider
Captain
It might sound daft but try and go for some flights in a Glider. For obvious reasons people get used to the idea that the loss of an engine isn't the end of the world and that turbulance can equal lift.
If its an airline fly Qantas they have never ever lost a passanger, not since their first flight in 1921.
PS I suffer from vertigo so there is no logic to it, none at all.
If its an airline fly Qantas they have never ever lost a passanger, not since their first flight in 1921.
PS I suffer from vertigo so there is no logic to it, none at all.
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evangilder
"Shooter"
Vertigo is a strange phenomena. I haven't had it while flying, oddly enough, but had a week or so of it after the Northridge earthquake. I guess getting my brains rattled in the quake disrupted my equilibrium for a bit. It did resolve itself after a while and I even had the Dr check to make sure I didn't have something else going on. He said it was fairly normal for people after something like that to experience vertigo.
So get your ears checked first, then try various things to desensitize yourself.
So get your ears checked first, then try various things to desensitize yourself.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
This is interesting Gary. A very good friend of mine used to fly, having a PPL. But now, if he wants to travel anywhere in Europe, he'll drive there, rather than fly, as he is terrified of flying! About a year ago, I took him back to the same Aero Club of which we had both been members, and got another friend to take him up in a Cherokee Arrow, sitting as P2.
He came back with a big grin on his face!
But since then, he's had to fly on commercial flights twice, the last time only two weeks ago, and the guy who accompanied him to Bulgaria had to get him p*ssed before he'd get on the aircraft! (He very nearly wasn't allowed to board!)
When I asked him what the problem was, he told me he thinks it's because he's stuck in a sealed tube, with no escape, being pulled through the air at around 500 knots, with no control.
So, lack of control could be one reason.
But, the mention of ear problems also raises another possibility.
I have been involved in flying, and parachuting, including high-altitude free fall, for nearly 40 years, and never had a problem, apart from the usual pre-jump nerves of course. I will admit though, that climbing onto say, the roof of the house to do some work would be a little nerve wracking, until I had been up there for a while, and got used to it. Then, about twelve years ago, before I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, I had a minor road accident, when some numpty ran into the back of my car whilst I was stationary at some traffic lights. Very soon after, I began to experience slight balance problems, for example, when standing up quickly from a sitting position. A week or so later, I had to fly, coincidentally to Denmark. Not a problem, I thought, until we were airborne and over the North Sea.
I always try to grab a window seat, so that I can get shots of cloud scapes, the ground and ocean, for possible inspiration for my paintings. On this occassion, I was taking some oblique shots of the cloud patterns on the sea, some 25,000 or 30,000 feet below, and all was fine, whilst looking through the viewfinder of the SLR camera I was using. But, the moment I lowered the camera, and looked directly at the same scene, I suddenly felt an overwhelming sense of insecurity. I was shocked, and had to look back into the cabin, when things returned to normal.
Anyway, a similar thing happened on the return flight, so I went to see my doctor, and explained what had happened.
After an examination, it turned out that I had suffered mild 'whiplash' injuries from the car accident, and this had caused some sort of inflammation, affecting the inner ear. The doctor reckoned this had caused a sense of imbalance, and assured me it would eventually pass. He was right, I've never experienced the feeling since, although my neck still 'cracks' occassionally - but that's either the RA, or age!
So, it probably hasn't helped, but 'inner ear' imbalance, or lack of control, could be contributing factors to your 'problem' perhaps?
He came back with a big grin on his face!
But since then, he's had to fly on commercial flights twice, the last time only two weeks ago, and the guy who accompanied him to Bulgaria had to get him p*ssed before he'd get on the aircraft! (He very nearly wasn't allowed to board!)
When I asked him what the problem was, he told me he thinks it's because he's stuck in a sealed tube, with no escape, being pulled through the air at around 500 knots, with no control.
So, lack of control could be one reason.
But, the mention of ear problems also raises another possibility.
I have been involved in flying, and parachuting, including high-altitude free fall, for nearly 40 years, and never had a problem, apart from the usual pre-jump nerves of course. I will admit though, that climbing onto say, the roof of the house to do some work would be a little nerve wracking, until I had been up there for a while, and got used to it. Then, about twelve years ago, before I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, I had a minor road accident, when some numpty ran into the back of my car whilst I was stationary at some traffic lights. Very soon after, I began to experience slight balance problems, for example, when standing up quickly from a sitting position. A week or so later, I had to fly, coincidentally to Denmark. Not a problem, I thought, until we were airborne and over the North Sea.
I always try to grab a window seat, so that I can get shots of cloud scapes, the ground and ocean, for possible inspiration for my paintings. On this occassion, I was taking some oblique shots of the cloud patterns on the sea, some 25,000 or 30,000 feet below, and all was fine, whilst looking through the viewfinder of the SLR camera I was using. But, the moment I lowered the camera, and looked directly at the same scene, I suddenly felt an overwhelming sense of insecurity. I was shocked, and had to look back into the cabin, when things returned to normal.
Anyway, a similar thing happened on the return flight, so I went to see my doctor, and explained what had happened.
After an examination, it turned out that I had suffered mild 'whiplash' injuries from the car accident, and this had caused some sort of inflammation, affecting the inner ear. The doctor reckoned this had caused a sense of imbalance, and assured me it would eventually pass. He was right, I've never experienced the feeling since, although my neck still 'cracks' occassionally - but that's either the RA, or age!
So, it probably hasn't helped, but 'inner ear' imbalance, or lack of control, could be contributing factors to your 'problem' perhaps?
- Thread starter
- #20
