First area to legalize Marijuana

Ok....... Daniel sorry if you took it the wrong way that was a general statement to others not you.

Piet thanks I couldn't agree more.

B-17engineer said:

I'd rather have neither but it won't happen. But that isn't the point as to who we'd want driving down the road.

Whatever you guys have your feelings about pot... I have mine (. When people are smoking pot and die from things such as lung cancer etc. etc. I'll be thinking, you stupid a**holes threw your life away for something that madeyou morbid and miserable.

I especially hate the piety and self righteousness pot smokers have... pisses me off.

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Irony, thy name is ...

I've never noticed that pot smokers are any more falsely pious or self righteous than any other 'group'. Or that they are esp "morbid and miserable".And I've known an awful lot of them, myself included... To be frank, I suspect that what you interpret as 'piety' in pot smokers is really just a vexed response to your own self-righteous dogmatism.

As for people 'throwing their lives away', who are you (or more to the point, who are the people who actually promulgate such policies) to decide how people should live their lives? After all, the fundamental credo of your nation is that people are entitled to live their lives as they wish. With the caveat that 'Your right to swing your arm, ends where my nose begins'.

An examination of the history of the state illegalization of marijuana reveals that the motivation behind those laws never had anything at all to do with protecting people's health, or society in general. They are 'blue laws', pure and simple. HJ Mencken summed it up in one memorable line: "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere is happy".

Pot is about as harmless a 'drug' as can be imagined. It certainly doesn't often turn people into violent maniacs, or wife and child abusers, like a certain legal drug I coulsd mention...Of course it can be abused, but so what? Lot'sa things people do can be harmful to them if taken to extremes. Hell, I know of guys in their 20's still sponging off their parents because they're too obsessed with playing video games to find and hold a job. Their personal lack of self-discipline isn't a just cause for a blanket prohibition of video games for the rest of us, is it?

The prohibition of pot is not only totally unjustified from a social cost/benefit perspective. Worse, the laws actually cause far more harm than they purport to prevent. Because the end result has not been to halt the use of pot, quite the contrary - but only to make criminals rich, to divert the expensive and limited resources of the law enforcement, judicial, and penal systems away from real problems, and to unjustly imprison and stigmatize vast numbers of people who pose no threat whatsoever to society. The War Against Marijuana is not only an utter failure, it's just plain wrong.

BTW, it may seem that I'm being unfairly rough with you, but I most assuredly am not. You've shown yourself to be a mature and level-headed guy, so I'm responding to you just as I would to any other man here. Because, despite our difference of opinions, I respect you.

JL

Ok I respect your thoughts. I just feel if it is illegal leave it illegal. People may not have died themselves from Marijuana but there have been incidents where people have killed others due to the use of marijuana. I know cases, my dad was talking to an inmate once (no hes not a criminal but a Police Officer) and he said his friends got 'high' on the drug and were convicted for manslaughter so it isn't as completely harmless as the users portray it to be or even the experiments portray it to be. It can lead to bad things, so does alcohol (Not directed at you Butters) but alcohol wasn't the point of this.

Alcohol is 35 billion dollar industry, pot isn't. If you make that illegal it is going to be like the 1920's where you have smugglers from everywhere bringing alcohol. This leads to unnecessary violence, plus the majority of people who have problems with drinking have real life issues. For people who use pot medically they do have issues and so be it. Smoke it.

You know what? If your gonna smoke pot do it in your house and don't come out till the effects of it are gone. Don't promote the smoking of pot to others.

Alcohol is socially excepted for the simple fact of the matter its legal! Again with the 1920's people still drank and made it legal.

lesofprimus said:

We're all friends here and ur opinion IS ur opinion...

Nuff said...

We're not gonna try and convince u otherwise....

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beaupower32 said:

Yep, wasnt trying to change your views on things Harrison, your opinion is your opinion, and I have no beef with that.

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Exactly , agree 100%

B-17engineer said:

Ok....... Daniel sorry if you took it the wrong way that was a general statement to others not you.
.

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No worries , as what Les and Beau said , your opinion is yours mate

I'm happy to see that my assessment of you was correct

That said, since you've voluntarily chosen to raise the stakes, I'm gonna push my luck and point out the glaring errors in your reasoning. I figger that a bit more rough-and-tumble won't hurt you.

Your dad's hearsay account of the inmate's story proves nothing. Because its conclusion derives from premises that are a fallacious conflation of correlation and causation. IOW, the fact that the inmate's friends happened to be high on pot when they committed manslaughter does not a priori mean that the marijuana was the cause of the act. A violence-prone person who uses marijuana will remain a violence-prone person, 'high' or not...

Now for this:

"Alcohol is 35 billion dollar industry, pot isn't. If you make that illegal it is going to be like the 1920's where you have smugglers from everywhere bringing alcohol. This leads to unnecessary violence, plus the majority of people who have problems with drinking have real life issues. For people who use pot medically they do have issues and so be it. Smoke it."

Umm...not only is your reasoning seriously flawed, you are also actually adding to the strength of MY argument...

First, you make a fallacious appeal to economic utility by implying that alcohol should be legal because a lot of people use it to make money. People also made a lot of money from the slave trade. Does that mean that it should be legal?

Second: You fallaciously ignore the fact that the marijuana industry is also a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The fact that the industry is illegal helps your argument not a whit. Not just because the money made via illegal activities has the same economic utility as any other money, but also because by explicitly appealling to the argument from economic utility in your prior support of the alcohol industry, you're hoisted on your own petard. IOW,you've voluntarily surrendered any credible claim to the moral high ground.

Third: The '1920's' scenario you paint is self-evidently equivalent to the state of the marijuana industry today. So what you're really doing is adding support to MY argument for the LEGALIZATION of marijuana.

Fourth: "...plus the majority of people who have problems with drinking have real life issues."
Assertion without evidence, pure and simple. Ambiguous to boot - What exactly are these 'real life issues' that justify alcohol abuse? Not to mention that it begs the question of whether or not EVERYONE has 'real life issues'. Which of course we all do...

Enough pedantry...The real point I'm making is that if you're going to raise the stakes, you first better make damn' sure that the cards you're holding are really as good as you think they are. Because there's some players you just can't bluff...

Thanks for being a good sport,

JL

Maximowitz said:

It's been legal in Amsterdam for more years than I can recall. And we know those Dutch are murderous, vicious psycho hose-beasts....set upon World dominination..


...through prog-rock albums.



The worst that could happen is sales of Hawkwind albums and late night pizza orders might increase in Oregon.

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Yes we are.
Actually a few weeks ago, a European research discovered that the Dutch use less drugs then other countries in the EU, although it's been "legal" for the last few decades. Shows that the policy is working

B-17engineer said:

Alcohol is 35 billion dollar industry, pot isn't. If you make that illegal it is going to be like the 1920's where you have smugglers from everywhere bringing alcohol. This leads to unnecessary violence, plus the majority of people who have problems with drinking have real life issues. For people who use pot medically they do have issues and so be it. Smoke it.

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Don't know where you've been, but drugs is about big bucks. The drugs market leads to smuggle, violence etc. (sounds familiar?)

Now what exactly is your argument then? If you tell me I am supporting argument then you are going with what I say? Where do you get slaves from? Slaves are inhumane and that's why they are illegal not because they made too much money. That is a completely different thing that is not to be brought into the conversation.

If you wanna smoke your cam pot stay inside and don't go around promoting it and saying smoke pot! Smoke Pot! Because that is how young kids are loosing futures. There are some people who go around promoting you.

Alcohol was on a MUCH larger scale than drugs are now. You don't have boats with grenade launchers and guns now do ya (1920's) ? Now you have un armed ships trying to sneak drugs in which if the drugs get through its not as violent so in no way whatsoever I am supporting your argument.

The smoking of it alone is bad enough! Then add marijuana....

Butters why don't you look a couple posts back will ya? MY OPINION IS MY OPINION! I don't care if you have all the dam facts in the world to prove it! It's an illegal substance. That's why I don't like it. You may like it because it makes you feel good but you can try all you want. Theres not a snowballs chance in hell your changing my argument so keep wasting your time its amusing that your going to argue a 14 year old boy who wants to do something with his life. So please go on!!

Well, whatever you say Butters I am not your pet. Stop telling me I am a good sport. Bottom line POT SHOULD STAY ILLEGAL. I don't care what you say about alcohol it wasn't the point neither are slaves so stop bringing things that are in a different land into this conversation it has nothing to do with it.

Well I am super happy today because my dads brothers (Police Officers too) Arrested 4 people for possession of Marijuana today! Hope you love your jail time! Wooooot!


Now Butters what exactly was your assessment of me. I am DYING to know.

B-17engineer said:

And my point is... it's still a drug.

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So is alcohol and tobacco, both are far worse than marijuana.

So many people smoke it anyhow, that it does not matter. Legalize it and tax the **** out of it. Not legalizing it or preventing these "coffee shops" is not going to keep people from doing it.

Look at Amsterdam, it is a great place. Pot smokers heaven as well. Either way I do not care. I do not smoke it, but I know plenty of people that do and I would rather be around them when they have smoked then when they have blitzed drunk.

I know. The point wasn't either. Solely Marijuana. Its an illegal substance is the word. Alcohol and tobacco aren't. That's a more fitting word.

B-17engineer said:

Whatever you guys have your feelings about pot... I have mine (. When people are smoking pot and die from things such as lung cancer etc. etc. I'll be thinking, you stupid a**holes threw your life away for something that madeyou morbid and miserable.

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How many people die of lung cancer from smoking the occasional joint? I bet you will find that it is really really really really really low...

Besides if you want to ban anything that is harmful to your health lets ban all of this:

Alcohol
Cigarettes, Cigars, Chewing Tobacco

Lets move on to food:

Pork products including Bacon
Burger King, McDonalds, etc.
Red Meat
Artificial Sweetener
BBQ Grills (yeap they have been proven to be carcinogenic)
Hot Dogs and Hamburgers (see above, what would America be with Hot Dogs and Hamburgers?)
Fish (yeap pollution sucks don't it...)
Junk Food
French Fries

Yeap all of these products above have been proven to have carcinogenics if prepared in certain ways, or to cause cancer by themselves, let alone the health risks caused by being unhalthy all together. I could make a list that will go on for days.

See my point...

Instead of basing it's wrong because it's illegal, give reasons why it should remain illegal for recreational use.

(Caffeine is one of the most widely used "psychotropic drug" in the world.)

Great! It isn't going to change my view. I don't care how anyone puts it. Shouldn't be legal.

Post isn't referring to you VB.

B-17engineer said:

My dads a police officer. He drinks but its being responsible because he doesn't drink so many bottles that he needs to get his stomach pumped.

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That does not matter. Just drinking regularly (I am not talking in excess) is enough to cause liver damage.

(to everyone else, I am not saying do not drink. Hell I love my Beer and Wine as well)

You could say that smoking pot could cause short term affects that if something terrible were to happen could cause long term effects....due to you being in a euphoric state of mind and slow reaction time right?

What does this have to do with food! I don't have a clue why you are bringing food into this. Food is different. You don't get high from food, you don't get slow reaction time from food. I don't get why this has to do with food or slaves.... like Butters was saying something about slaves....

B-17engineer said:

Neil I don't get why you are comparing Caffeine and Marijuana......

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Because it is a psychoactive stimulant drug. You should actually read how it effects the human body. In moderation it does not really harm you, just like alcohol and even just like pot.

lesofprimus said:

Caffeine and Nicotine are very addictive substances Harrison..

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Very true. I drank so much Mountain Dew in Iraq that I had a caffeine addiction. I could not even sleep at night without popping open a 2 liter bottle of the Dew.

The cops would have to be pretty bored to pop anyone for possesion up here . the only thing they'd go for is the gro ops
Still don't smoke anything amd you can't gp wrong

I should actually read. I have read.Thanks. It has no effects like pot or alcohol.

"It's main ingredient is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), a mind-altering chemical. Marijuana produced today has a level of THC that is up to 25 times higher than the type sold in the 1960s"

So people are looking for more than what marijuana is aren't they? hmmm.

B-17engineer said:

And? Its not harmful.........

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Wrong! Think again...

But what about this...

Link


Wheels