Flipping over V-1s

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Chocks away!, Aug 20, 2006.

  1. Chocks away!

    Chocks away! Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Artist
    Location:
    Cyprus
    I don't know if this has been discussed before in these forums, but it's something i have difficulty understanding:
    Why on earth did RAF pilots go into the trouble of flying level with a V-1, positioning his fighter's wing beneath the buzz-bomb's and flipping it over, as opposed to just shooting it down?! :confused:
     
  2. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    8,848
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Naval Electronics Technician
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Shooting it down was more dangerous than you might think. The pursuing aircraft was just as apt to end up getting caught in the resulting explosion, which was extremely likely. Flipping was thought to be a safer method.
     
  3. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    however it was originally only discovered after pilots were running out of ammo and were doing it as a last resort.........
     
  4. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    niagara falls
    I can't find it but there is a pic of a 418 sqn bird with all the paint burnt off after shooting down a v1 with guns
     
  5. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    12,631
    Likes Received:
    309
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    That warhead going off would have one heck of a big blast radius.

    I'd be scared s***less to take shots at it.
     
  6. redcoat

    redcoat Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Occupation:
    lorry driver
    Location:
    Stockport
    One of the greatest photos of WW2
     

    Attached Files:

  7. k9kiwi

    k9kiwi Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    Kiwi Land
    And the best budgies for doing it in were typhoons and tempests.
     
  8. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,205
    Likes Received:
    788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Although flipping a V-1 might seem a lot safer that shooting the thing down (as mentioned by Sys and PB) you really had to watch what you were doing. The wingtips of both Spits and Tempests, while not weak are not the strongest part of the wing and are areas where you don't want to put a lot of undue stress to. The Spit's aileron runs almost to the wingtip. The aileron hinge is a few feet inboard. Putting stress on that part of the structure could knock the structure out of alignment, putting stress on the aileron hinge and possibly causing it to fail, if not immediately it could happen a time in the future where it won't be convenient! The Tempest seems to have a similar situation but it also appears the wing is a bit stronger. In either case, thinking as a maintainer, if I was that squadron's maintenance officer I would of been watching this area very carefully as the pilots are actually inducing a controlled mid-air collision!!!

    Gotta admit - those guys had a set of big ones!!!
     
  9. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I've heard a story about a Hurricane pilot that was so good in the formation he used to tap the other planes wings on purpose. And they sometimes landed with dents in the wings to prove it! Looks they knew what was coming. :lol:
     
  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,205
    Likes Received:
    788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    :lol: Like I said, a set of "big ones."
     
  11. plan_D

    plan_D Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    11,985
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    43 Sqdn. CO. (Tangmere) Group Captain T.F Dalton-Morgan -

    "...P/O Roy DuVivier and Joe Pippa saw me. Jow flew over me at about 200 feet and threw out his Mae West up wind of me. I eventually picked it up, so that was dear old Joe, he was such a good pilot that when he used to fly in close formation with me he would touch the edge of my wing tip with the edge of his and once there was a dent in my wing tip to prove it."

    So, stating the obvious, the man I was talking about was Pilot Officer Joe Pippa of 43 Sqdn.
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,205
    Likes Received:
    788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    "Dents in a wintip." Yep - a pilot a maintainer loves to hate... :letitallout:
     
  13. Twitch

    Twitch Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    historical combat aviation writer
    Location:
    City of the Angels California
    Here's how the technique began. This is a exerp from an article I once wrote-

    RAF pilots used Tempests and hopped up Spitfires to intercept V-1s too and in desperation at times employed the highly dangerous method of tipping over the buzz bombs by matching speed with them as they tucked a wingtip under the V-1’s wing and then maneuvered to flip the machines. The gyrostabilizer could not compensate for such maneuvers without ailerons and the robot would crash and explode.

    Dicey stuff but a Pole with the RAF, Taduesz Szymanski, got two in this manner flying a Mustang III, one on July 12, 1944. Szymanski and wingman were on ‘diver patrol’ and directed to a doodlebug intercept.

    “You had to hit them from dead astern and not get closer than 300 yards or you might be brought down by the explosion. This meant you were presented with a very small target and it took several hundred rounds to bring one down.”

    After finishing off the V-1 he received another call and told his wingman to hit it after he spotted it but he was not there. With radio problems he’d returned to base so Szymanski closed in alone and fired. He saw strikes just as his ammo ran out. A call to control confirmed that no other fighters were nearby to assist.

    Szymanski flew in close to observe the bomb and had an idea. Once flying Spitfires at 20,000 feet with a pal they purposely overlapped wings just to see the effect. A slight lift was felt by the pilot with the wing above the other one’s. Hmm? Knowing that if a gyroscope is turned more than 90-degrees it is upset, he had an idea.

    “As soon as I put the port wing under its wing it started lifting. Then I put enough of my wing under it and made a sharp bank to starboard. After I straightened out from my bank it had straightened itself out but had lost some height.”

    Szymanski repeated the maneuver eleven times with the same result. The thing was nearing the London area now when he decided to try something different. He pulled up as if beginning a loop striking it with his wingtip once more. This time when he recovered the V-1 was flying upside down. It went into a gradual dive and went into the Channel.

    The same thing happened again on August 6, 1944 after he downed one and damaged another running out of ammo. This time the upward maneuver toppled the robot on the first try. Szymanski got nine V-1s.

    There were numerable RAF pilots with many V-1 kills- Wing Commander Roland Beaumont: 8 enemy aircraft 32 V-1s, W/C Edward Crew: 15 E/A 31.5 V-1s, Squadron Leader Arthur Umbers: 6.5 E/A 28 V-1s, W/C Russell Bannock: 9 E/A 19 V-1s. S/L Francis Mellersh: 8 E/A 15 V-1s, S/L Harvey Sweetman: 7 E/A 10.5 V-1s, Flt./Lt. Desmond Ruchwaldy: 7 E/A 10 V-1s, F/L J.O. Matthews: 11 E/A 10 V-1s. Plus nine other aces had V-1 scores as well.
     
  14. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    19,162
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Communications
    Location:
    Long Island Native in Mississippi
    Home Page:
    Good stuff Twitch, I had heard the Szymanski story before, but didnt know about the other V-1 Killers....
     
  15. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,205
    Likes Received:
    788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Yep, very cool!
     
  16. k9kiwi

    k9kiwi Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    Kiwi Land
    This might be an eye opener for you to read.

    A few quotes.

    That was No.3 tempest Sqn with 258 kills.

    Full article at CHAPTER 11 Flying Bombs and Rockets | NZETC
     
  17. Nonskimmer

    Nonskimmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    8,848
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Naval Electronics Technician
    Location:
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Interesting. Thanks for the link.

    A few Canadian units participated in the "Battle of the Flying Bombs" too:

    "Canadian fighter pilots had a relatively small role in the battle, chiefly because most Royal Canadian Air Force fighter squadrons had been deployed to support the Normandy invasion and were not diverted from that task. Three RCAF units did participate, shooting down 97 flying bombs: 82 by 418 Squadron, 10 by 409 Sqdn. and five by 402 Sqdn. The most successful Canadian pilot was Squadron Leader Russel Bannock of 418 Sqdn.; with his British observer, Flying Officer Robert R. Bruce, he shot down 19 V-1s, four of them in a single flight. His closest V-1 rival was Flight Lieutenant Colin Evans, also of 418, who shot down eight, assisted by his RAF navigator, Pilot Officer S. Humblestone."

    A couple more Canadian fellas:

    "The usual stratagem was to fire on a V-1 from a discreet distance. The “Battle of the Flying Bombs” included instances of pilots flying alongside a missile and tipping it over. Airflow kept wingtips from touching, but matching speeds was difficult. Newspapers and popular histories of the campaign made much of what was actually a very rare tactic. One Canadian who did resort to it was pilot officer Benjamin R. Scaman, flying a Spitfire of 610 Sqdn. ( July 28, 1944). He dived on a buzz bomb but found he was closing too quickly. Rather than have the missile blow up in his face, he tucked his port wing under the V-1’s stubby starboard wing and tipped it over; the device exploded in the sea. Among the more unusual kills were those scored by Flying Officer William H. MacKenzie (August 16, 1944) and FO Jack Robert Ritch the next day. Both men were flying Meteor I aircraft of 616 Sqdn. and were the first Canadians to see combat in jet-propelled fighters."

    (sources: www.legionmagazine.com Canadian Air Force / la Force aérienne canadienne)


    Bannock and Bruce:
     

    Attached Files:

  18. loomaluftwaffe

    loomaluftwaffe Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    interesting, good stuff there
     
  19. Twitch

    Twitch Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    historical combat aviation writer
    Location:
    City of the Angels California
    Yes interesting 1st hand accounts!
     
  20. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    41,780
    Likes Received:
    519
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Doctor
    Location:
    Portsmouth / Royal Deeside, UK
    Home Page:
    Good stuff Guys!
     
Loading...

Share This Page