German or Nazis?

[stona]

People were not sent to camps for telling the wrong jokes. Popular jokes were noted and recorded by the various organs of state, particularly the security police, but people rarely if ever got arrested for telling them. One report acknowledges that jokes about the allied bombing acted as a relief for hard pressed people at the same time as it acknowledged that the bombing made the people more reliant on the state, the exact opposite of what the Anglo-Americans were hoping for.
Open opposition to the regime or later defeatism could certainly get you into a world of s...trouble and to this extent people certainly did keep their mouths shut with all but trusted friends or family. The Nazi state was a police state. It has been compared to a snake, if you trod on its tail it would bite you.
Steve

 

[tyrodtom]

People were not sent to camps for telling the wrong jokes. Popular jokes were noted and recorded by the various organs of state, particularly the security police, but people rarely if ever got arrested for telling them. One report acknowledges that jokes about the allied bombing acted as a relief for hard pressed people at the same time as it acknowledged that the bombing made the people more reliant on the state, the exact opposite of what the Anglo-Americans were hoping for.
Open opposition to the regime or later defeatism could certainly get you into a world of s...trouble and to this extent people certainly did keep their mouths shut with all but trusted friends or family. The Nazi state was a police state. It has been compared to a snake, if you trod on its tail it would bite you.
Steve

Go to the Axis History Forum, there's at least one instant, in the falbiel (guillotine) thread of the warcrimes section. A person was not only arrested but executed for a joke.

After July 44 it didn't take much to get accused of "conduct detrimental to the Reichs morale", or however it was phrased.

 

[GrauGeist]

Of the men I knew, who were involved in the German military, one joined the SS because of "a firm invitation" but was able to remain in combat units as a panzergrenadier.
The other joined the Luftwaffe (in the late 30's) because of the "high spirits and a sense of adventure of the times" and the other was actually a Czech, who as a young man, had a great love of aircraft and when a Luftwaffe base was established nearby, became a shop helper, eventually being employed by the Luftwaffe, learning to be a mechanic and machinist during his time there.

Three different people and three entirely different reasons for being involved with the military.

 

[pbehn]

Hitlers regime enjoyed complete success from his rise to power until the invasion of Russia ground to a halt. How this was perceived and reported in Germany is a matter of debate. The disaster of Stalingrad wasnt reported to the German people until the beginning of 1943 and by the autumn of 1944 Hitler was withdrawing from the world of reason into his bunker. From a fruitcake empire that lasted for a matter of months controlling most of Europe a large part of North Africa and the Middle East. I am sure almost every opinion is possible from the most extreme to the most benign.

 

[Lucky13]

The Iraqi war was not an act of "leibensraum" or an act of "protecting Russian speaking minorities".

True, it was to secure and protect the bacon!

 

[GrauGeist]

True, it was to secure and protect the bacon!

But there isn't any bacon in that region, which is probably why those people are so angry all the time...

 

[Airframes]

Well, they would be, with no 'Baconzraum' to look forward to .......................

 

[stona]

After July 44 it didn't take much to get accused of "conduct detrimental to the Reichs morale", or however it was phrased.

From July '44 onwards, but really by early '45 the 'justice' system, for what it was worth, was breaking down. Summary executions and the sentences of what amounted to no more than kangaroo courts are something different.

Steve

 

[silence]

Harkening back to post #95, we have the Third Wave "experiment" of April, 1967:

"The Third Wave was an experimental social movement created by high school history teacher Ron Jones to explain how the German populace could accept the actions of the Nazi regime during the Second World War. While he taught his students about Nazi Germany during his "Contemporary World History" class, Jones found it difficult to explain how the German people could accept the actions of the Nazis, and decided to create a social movement as a demonstration of the appeal of fascism. Over the course of five days, Jones conducted a series of exercises in his classroom emphasizing discipline and community, intended to model certain characteristics of the Nazi movement. As the movement grew outside his class and began to number in the hundreds, Jones began to feel that the movement had spiraled out of control. He convinced the students to attend a rally where he claimed the announcement of a Third Wave presidential candidate would be televised. Upon their arrival, the students were presented with a blank channel and told his students of the true nature of the movement as an experiment in fascism, presenting the students with a short film discussing the actions of Nazi Germany." - Wiki (yes, its actually accurate!)

There's a novelized book, THE WAVE (
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICng-KRxXJ8) - please look past the 1980s fashions!

And a German film adaptation: THE WAVE (DIE WELLE) (
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psp3dGDGNgk)

And a website, THE WAVE HOME (The Wave Home - The Wave, Die Welle, The Third Wave - Official Website)

Should you choose to look into The Wave, try to keep in mind that this took place over a period of only five days. Then consider that the Nazis had YEARS to keep hammering home their tenents to an entire nation.

 

[stona]

I haven't watched that yet, but I doubt that Ron had the benefit of a terror apparatus to encourage those who might oppose his movement. During the revolution (and that's what it was) of 1933 nearly 200,000 political opponents to the NSDAP passed through the hundreds of early concentration camps. Most were released in days or weeks having been given a short and painful lesson by the SA thugs who ran the camps. Some were not released (the lawyer Hans Litten springs to mind) and some were killed or pushed to suicide. The majority of the victims of this so called protective custody were members of the two major parties of the left, the social democrats and communists, though many others got caught up in the terror.
Steve

 

[GrauGeist]

The Political dissidents, the Intellectuals, the people who tend to be on the edge of the crowd: the ones that stand out - these are the ones that get rounded up first. The people see them whisked away and the herd tightens to avoid being next.

Then the ones that helped the regime come to power, they're next. Because they have already proven that they can be dangerous and the regime doesn't like that.

This method of controlling the people has worked remarkably well over the centuries

 

[stona]

The Political dissidents, the Intellectuals, the people who tend to be on the edge of the crowd: the ones that stand out - these are the ones that get rounded up first. The people see them whisked away and the herd tightens to avoid being next.

Then the ones that helped the regime come to power, they're next. Because they have already proven that they can be dangerous and the regime doesn't like that.

This method of controlling the people has worked remarkably well over the centuries

In the post 1935 Himmler/Eicke/SS controlled concentration camps there were several categories of prisoner. The camps were most lethal to those that fell into one of the 'asocial' groups such as work shy or habitual criminals. This was pretty much the case up to WW2.
Steve