germany beats russians in 41 what does 2nd BoB look like

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 18, 2005

Interesting thought there with Turkey. I think had the Germans been looking into Turkey across its border, the Turks would have folded and joined the Germans.

HealzDevo · Mar 19, 2007

This forgets the fact that Germany lost a lot of good trained men in Barbarossa. What impact are we saying this would have on the German Army? Barbarossa was a tough campagin on the Germans. Having said that though, it would give Germany access to a lot of manpower and space to ramp up production as well as natural resources. Therefore Germany would have more ability to crank out some new designs if necessary... Perhaps therefore more German tanks could have been constructed with Russian resources...

Civettone · Mar 19, 2007

No, Germany would still have enough (good) men to take Britain. Even after careful preparation they would never be able to supply a force of more than 50 divisions (which is only a part of the entire German army).

There was not going to be tank production in occupied Russia. And again, the Germans didn't need more tanks to defeat England.

Kris

plan_D · Mar 19, 2007

Germany needed air superiority, naval superiority and assault barges to defeat Great Britain. None of which it was going to get anytime soon.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 19, 2007

HealzDevo said:
This forgets the fact that Germany lost a lot of good trained men in Barbarossa. What impact are we saying this would have on the German Army? Barbarossa was a tough campagin on the Germans. Having said that though, it would give Germany access to a lot of manpower and space to ramp up production as well as natural resources. Therefore Germany would have more ability to crank out some new designs if necessary... Perhaps therefore more German tanks could have been constructed with Russian resources...

Germany never had a short supply of good trained men. German Wehrmact training was excellent and the NCO corps of the Wehrmacht was exellent and possibly the best of the war (obviously up for debate).

You have to remember also that that a occupation requires troops on the ground. In order to occupy a country the size of the Soviet Union would have required lots of manpower and therefore I agree with Civettone.

syscom3 · Mar 19, 2007

plan_D said:
Germany needed air superiority, naval superiority and assault barges to defeat Great Britain. None of which it was going to get anytime soon.

And I suspect a narrow window of opportunity to begin the invasion before bad weather makes it impossible.

I sort of suspect that the RN, BA and RAF were a tad better prepared to deal with an invasion.

And that doesnt even take into account the US lend lease material that would have been made available.

HealzDevo · Mar 20, 2007

Yes, but you had the campaign dragging out until winter in real life. Are we assuming in this that the campaign doesn't drag into winter. I was meaning when I said good men that a lot of the experienced members of the German Army and Airforce were killed in Russia through the cold with inadequate preparation for the cold. Also wouldn't Germany be aiming to start using that space that it now has for manufacturing? I certainly would have used Russia to start up a manufacturing base to prepare for what would be needed for the invasion which requires aircraft, boats and amphibious vehicles for the German troops. These would be pumping away if the Russian factories had been captured replacing German losses. Thus the results if this occurred might have been even worse, due to a steady stream of German aircraft produced in Russia and boats and amphibious vehicles ready to strike out at England.

Jabberwocky · Mar 23, 2007

In my opinion the British were far better equipped to deal with a second BoB in 1942 than they were to deal with the original BoB.

Radar: Chain Home and Chain Low have been completed and significantly expanded.

Static defences: Costal radar fully operational, over 28,000 pillboxes and some 4000 other permanent defensive emplacements completed by the end of 1941.

Home Defence: Home Guard is equipped and can be used as garrsion troops/static defence troops, leaving the now much better trained and equipped British Army to fulfil a counter invasion role.

British anti invasion planning was built around a combination of fixed defensive fortifications in depth (up to 30 miles deep on likely inland routes) to slow the invasion forces and prevent bridgeheads connecting, followed by strong locallise counter attacks, eliminating enemy bridgheads in turn.

RAF; UK Fighter Command rose in size by 20 fighter squadrons (a 35% increase in strenght), much better equipped to take on bomber forces (cannon equipped Spitfires and Typhoons, nightfighter Beaus and Mossies).

Civettone · Mar 23, 2007

HealzDevo said:
Yes, but you had the campaign dragging out until winter in real life. Are we assuming in this that the campaign doesn't drag into winter. I was meaning when I said good men that a lot of the experienced members of the German Army and Airforce were killed in Russia through the cold with inadequate preparation for the cold.

I think it's safe to say that the German army had more experienced soldiers in 1941/1942 than in 1940. There would have been heaps of problems for the Germans wanting to invade Britain. Shortage of men and equipment is not one of them.

Also wouldn't Germany be aiming to start using that space that it now has for manufacturing? I certainly would have used Russia to start up a manufacturing base to prepare for what would be needed for the invasion which requires aircraft, boats and amphibious vehicles for the German troops.

You would. Adolf Hitler wouldn't. Russia was to become an agricultural area destined to feed the German über-race. The population was either to be deported, enslaved, assimilated or exterminated.

Plus, there are some disadvantages of producing weapons and other complex products in occupied but hostile territories.

Kris

HealzDevo · Mar 24, 2007

The Germans did it in France and the European countries. Yes, I know that would be my strategy once I defeated Russia to turn its factories into adding to what the German ones were turning out...

germany beats russians in 41 what does 2nd BoB look like

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