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Has anyone got any evidence to support the often repeated contention that it was Goering that ordered the Bf 109s of the various Jagdgeschwader on the Channel front to fly close escort for the bombers during what we Brits call the BoB?
I can find evidence that he was concerned about mounting bomber losses and wanted the bombers preserved for what he and everyone else fondly imagined would be post BoB operations, but not that he ever ordered the single seat fighters to fly close escort. Even in the infamous 'give me Spitfires for my wing' conference with Galland et alter the decision as to how escort would be performed was left to the various Kommodoren.
Galland, ideally, liked to use three fighter Gruppen to escort each bomber Gruppe, one flying a 'freijagd' ahead, one as top cover and only one unlucky Gruppe flying close to the bombers. Goering never stopped him or anyone else from doing so as far as I can tell. These tactics would be familiar to Allied commanders a few years later. It was a fact not lost on the Germans that if all the escorts flew close escort, then the Spitfires and Hurricanes invariably reached the bombers which was precisely they were trying to prevent. It also meant that more fighter pilots and fewer bomber crews were lost, something that caused tension within the Luftwaffe. Goering was not the only one that felt that many of his sore throated experten were more concerned with their scores than with preventing Dorniers being shot down into the Channel.
If anyone has some firm evidence to the contrary I'd be interested. I feel the Goering/close escort issue might be just another of the many myths emanating from this period.
Cheers
Steve
Goering didn't die in 1945, he committed suicide in Oct. 1946.
I'd have a hard time putting much trust in any translation of a interview with him.
Just look at the few lines posted. The He177 a development of the Ju-87 ? The Ju-88 primarily a commercial airplane ?
Was he just blowing smoke ?
Or is that interview a bad translation of what he said ?
You don't see too many dive bombers in the civilian world. So I wouldn't place too much weight on Goering's statement.
The Do 17 wasn't really ever a commercial/civil aircraft. One of the prototypes were used as a high-speed/record setting airliner, but it was pretty much a recon/bomber aircraft from the start. The He 111 was the only 'civil' design used heavily in the BoB as far as I know. (it was also one of the more capable/successful bombers of that battle, so the criticism doesn't make sense)Perhaps he confused it with the Do 17?!
I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but I still find it odd that the primary exception to 'nearly everything with wings' was fighters. Fitting Bf 109s with bomb racks and dive breaks seems like a better idea for a tactical dive bomber than trying the same with the likes of large twin engine aircraft. (shallow dive bombing with larger aircraft still had some merit though and I believe is more what the Ju 88 ended up doing in as far as operational 'dive' bombing) The larger winged 109T seems a better starting point for that too.It was a fact, however, that Udet insisted on nearly everything with wings be capable of dive-bombing.
The Ju88 development was delayed because of Udet's insistance that it be capable of dive bombing in 1937, so modifications had to be made for this capability.
Of all the aircraft mandated to be dive-bombers (Stuka and Hs123 excluded), only the Ju88 proved it's worth in that respect.I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but I still find it odd that the primary exception to 'nearly everything with wings' was fighters. Fitting Bf 109s with bomb racks and dive breaks seems like a better idea for a tactical dive bomber than trying the same with the likes of large twin engine aircraft. (shallow dive bombing with larger aircraft still had some merit though and I believe is more what the Ju 88 ended up doing in as far as operational 'dive' bombing) The larger winged 109T seems a better starting point for that too.
Fighters tended to be rated for high G loads already as well ... so less compromise for weight of added reinforcement that level bombers would need. (putting dive breaks on the Fw 190, Bf 110 and Fw 187 would make sense too)
Of all the aircraft mandated to be dive-bombers (Stuka and Hs123 excluded), only the Ju88 proved it's worth in that respect.
All the retro-fitting, reworking and trouble-shooting did nothing but cause delays in production of aircraft that weren't design for the task.
When I read Goering's interview, I can almost detect a bitter sarcasm in this respect.
Most cases of fighters being fitted with dive breaks (or flaps intended to operate as dive breaks, or landing gear used as such) with other countries tended to be fairly successful with varying degrees of actual accuracy and generally little detriment to fighter performance. (again, structural requirements would be rather similar to existing fighter G loads, especially with the 12 G -ultimate load- requirement for American fighters)All the retro-fitting, reworking and trouble-shooting did nothing but cause delays in production of aircraft that weren't design for the task.
Goring coerced Udet into joining the Nazi party in the first place to help organize the LW ... it was partially a matter of prestige and partially related to Udet's objectively good talents in aviation and military planning. It seems Goring was rather ill informed on what his associates or those he delegated authority to were up to at times. As was argued earlier in the thread it's a bit hard to distinguish history written by the victors (or survivors) from the more genuine incompetence and faults in Goering's abilities.The remarkable and slightly suspicious thing is that Göring kept him for all of those years.
Goering didn't die in 1945, he committed suicide in Oct. 1946.
I'd have a hard time putting much trust in any translation of a interview with him.
Just look at the few lines posted. The He177 a development of the Ju-87 ? The Ju-88 primarily a commercial airplane ?
Was he just blowing smoke ?
Or is that interview a bad translation of what he said ?