Glider
Captain
The B52 has to be the run away winner
Greatest Modern Bomber
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HealzDevo
Staff Sergeant
I was meaning that it was a bomber that would have problems operating in somewhere like over the Soviet Union in the Cold War even with all its Electronic Countermeasures. It would need air superiority to really operate, otherwise it could be lost very quickly. It does however, have the advantage that it has enough bombs to do serious damage over a target. I know they reduced the radar signature, but can they reduce it enough to really cope with SAMs designed to shoot down F-22s and F-35s when they come out? That is the really question on the B-52s future...
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
You are right.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Do you know that the B-2, B-1 and even the good ole B-52 went through extreme arctic environmental testing before they were fully operationally deployed?
BTW - my father in aw flew B-52s out of Minot North Dakota in the 1980s (good ole cold war years). It wasn't too uncommon to get a scramble in the middle of the night where the outside temp was -40F!!!!
HealzDevo
Staff Sergeant
I wasn't referring to the weather, I was referring to all those SAMs and fighter aircraft that would intercept the B-52s and destroy them.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Where and when? The B-52 (even in the 80s) would hardly be over Soviet territory and when they did strike within the Soviet Union, there would of been much left - cruise missiles! Ever hear of them?
HealzDevo
Staff Sergeant
Yes, I have heard of cruise missiles. I do assume though that it would require some penetration to get those cruise missiles to a launchable position to do some damage. The Soviets would hardly let the B-52s linger in impunity at the edges of the radar net though...
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Nope! It was well known that a B-52 will never survive over Soviet Airspace at altitude and that's why its penetration role eventually changed
That it could - ECM - ever hear of it? The Soviets would never know it's there....
Besides the B-52 would not start massive gravity bombing until air superiority was achieved. Remenber the first Gulf War? Once the radar and SAMs were taken out the B-52s conducted high altitude carpet bombing. They also did it again over Serbia in the late 1990s.
More than likely though they would do just what FBJ said, launch Cruise Missiles and the B-52 could carry 20 of the AGM-86B ACLM cruise missiles which had a range of 1500 miles. The B-52 did not have to get to close to the enemy to cause grave damage.
More than likely though they would do just what FBJ said, launch Cruise Missiles and the B-52 could carry 20 of the AGM-86B ACLM cruise missiles which had a range of 1500 miles. The B-52 did not have to get to close to the enemy to cause grave damage.
CRASHGATE3
Airman 1st Class
Matt..
just seen your pic of the B58...one of my fave aircraft
never seen that pic before....still looks awesome
thanx
I go with the Greneral opion this time the B-52 though desinged in the Early -50's it has had a very extensive combat record The USAF has had B-52s in active service since 1955 with the Strategic Air Command which was absorbed into the Air Combat Command in 1991. Superior performance at high subsonic speeds and relatively low operating costs have kept the B-52 in service despite proposals to replace it with the Mach 3 XB-70 Valkyrie, supersonic B-1B Lancer and stealthy B-2 Spirit. In January 2005, the B-52 became the second aircraft, after the English Electric Canberra, to mark 50 years of continuous service with its original primary operator.
with many upgrades that started of November 1959, SAC initiated the Big Four modification program (also known as Modification 1000) for all operational B-52s except early B models. The four modifications were:
Ability to perform all-weather, low-altitude (below 500 feet (150 m)) interdiction as a response to advancements in Soviet Union's missile defenses. The low-altitude flights were estimated to accelerate structural fatigue by at least a factor of eight, requiring costly repairs to extend service life.
Ability to launch AGM-28 Hound Dog standoff nuclear missiles
Ability to launch ADM-20 Quail decoys
An advanced electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite
The program was completed by 1963 at a cost of US$265 million.[53]
The ability to carry up to 20 AGM-69 SRAM nuclear missiles was added to G and H models starting in 1971 a cost of US$400 million.[54] Fuel leaks due to deteriorating Marman clamps continued to plague all variants of the B-52. To this end, the aircraft were subjected to Blue Band (1957), Hard Shell (1958), and finally QuickClip (1958) programs. The latter fitted safety straps which prevented catastrophic loss of fuel in case of clamp failure.[55]
Ongoing problems with advanced avionics were addressed in the Jolly Well program, completed in 1964, which improved components of the AN/ASQ-38 bombing navigational computer and the terrain computer. The MADREC (Malfunction Detection and Recording) upgrade fitted to most aircraft by 1965 could detect failures in avionics and weapons computer systems, and was essential in monitoring the Hound Dog missiles. The electronic countermeasures capability of the B-52 was expanded with Rivet Rambler (1971) and Rivet Ace (1973).[56]
Structural fatigue, exacerbated by the change to low-altitude missions, was first dealt with in the early 1960s by the three-phase High Stress program which enrolled aircraft at 2,000 flying hours.[57] This was followed by a 2,000-hour service life extension to select airframes in 1966-1968, and the extensive Pacer Plank reskinning completed in 1977.[3] The wet wing introduced on G and H models was even more susceptible to fatigue due to experiencing 60% more stress during flight than the old wing. The wings were modified by 1964 under ECP 1050 at a cost of US$219 million.[58] This was followed by a US$50 million fuselage skin and longeron replacement (ECP 1185) in 1966, and the US$69 million B-52 Stability Augmentation and Flight Control program (ECP 1195) in 1967.[58]
In 2007 the LITENING targeting pod was fitted and commissioned increasing the combat effectiveness of the aircraft during day, night and under-the-weather conditions in the attack of ground targets with a variety of standoff weapons under the guidance of LASERs and the help of high resolution forward-looking infrared sensor (FLIR) for visual display in the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum and charged coupled device (CCD-TV) camera used to obtain target imagery in the visible portion, this technology could also be used in real-time transmission to ground communications networks and government agencies to gather battlefield intelligence, assess battlefield damage, assess terrorist activities and counter drug activity, further advancing the B-52H's capabilities and uses.
The Air Force intends to keep the B-52 in service until at least 2040, an unprecedented length of service for a military aircraft.[4][61] B-52s are periodically refurbished at the USAF maintenance depots such as Tinker Air Force Base, Oklahoma.
Boeing suggested re-engining the B-52H fleet with the Rolls-Royce RB211 534E-4. This would involve replacing the eight Pratt Whitney TF33s (total thrust 8 × 17,000lb) with four RB211s (total thrust 4 × 37,400lb). The RR engines will increase the range and payload of the fleet and reduce fuel consumption. However, the cost of the project would be significant. Procurement would cost approximately US$2.56 billion (US$36 million × 71 aircraft). A General Accounting Office study of the proposal concluded that Boeing's estimated savings of US$4.7 billion would not be realized. They found that it would cost the Air Force US$1.3 billion over keeping the existing engines.[62] This was subsequently disputed in a Defense Sciences Board report in 2003 and revised in 2004 that identified numerous errors in the prior evaluation of the Boeing proposal, and urged the Air Force to re-engine the aircraft without delay. Further, the DSB report stated the program would save substantial funds, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and increase aircraft range and endurance, duplicating the results of a Congressionally funded US$3M program office study conducted in 2003.[63]
The USAF continues to rely on the B-52 because it remains an effective economical heavy bomber, particularly in the type of missions that have been conducted since the end of the Cold War, mainly against nations that have limited air defense capabilities. The B-52's capacity to "loiter" for extended periods over (or even well outside) the battlefield, while delivering precision standoff and direct fire munitions, has been a valuable asset in conflicts such as Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.
The speed and stealth of the B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit have only been useful until enemy air defenses were destroyed, a task that has been swiftly achieved in recent conflicts. The B-52 boasts the highest mission capable rate of the three types of heavy bombers operated by the USAF. Whereas the B-1 averages a 53% ready rate, and the B-2 achieved a 26%, the B-52 averages 80%
with many upgrades that started of November 1959, SAC initiated the Big Four modification program (also known as Modification 1000) for all operational B-52s except early B models. The four modifications were:
Ability to perform all-weather, low-altitude (below 500 feet (150 m)) interdiction as a response to advancements in Soviet Union's missile defenses. The low-altitude flights were estimated to accelerate structural fatigue by at least a factor of eight, requiring costly repairs to extend service life.
Ability to launch AGM-28 Hound Dog standoff nuclear missiles
Ability to launch ADM-20 Quail decoys
An advanced electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite
The program was completed by 1963 at a cost of US$265 million.[53]
The ability to carry up to 20 AGM-69 SRAM nuclear missiles was added to G and H models starting in 1971 a cost of US$400 million.[54] Fuel leaks due to deteriorating Marman clamps continued to plague all variants of the B-52. To this end, the aircraft were subjected to Blue Band (1957), Hard Shell (1958), and finally QuickClip (1958) programs. The latter fitted safety straps which prevented catastrophic loss of fuel in case of clamp failure.[55]
Ongoing problems with advanced avionics were addressed in the Jolly Well program, completed in 1964, which improved components of the AN/ASQ-38 bombing navigational computer and the terrain computer. The MADREC (Malfunction Detection and Recording) upgrade fitted to most aircraft by 1965 could detect failures in avionics and weapons computer systems, and was essential in monitoring the Hound Dog missiles. The electronic countermeasures capability of the B-52 was expanded with Rivet Rambler (1971) and Rivet Ace (1973).[56]
Structural fatigue, exacerbated by the change to low-altitude missions, was first dealt with in the early 1960s by the three-phase High Stress program which enrolled aircraft at 2,000 flying hours.[57] This was followed by a 2,000-hour service life extension to select airframes in 1966-1968, and the extensive Pacer Plank reskinning completed in 1977.[3] The wet wing introduced on G and H models was even more susceptible to fatigue due to experiencing 60% more stress during flight than the old wing. The wings were modified by 1964 under ECP 1050 at a cost of US$219 million.[58] This was followed by a US$50 million fuselage skin and longeron replacement (ECP 1185) in 1966, and the US$69 million B-52 Stability Augmentation and Flight Control program (ECP 1195) in 1967.[58]
In 2007 the LITENING targeting pod was fitted and commissioned increasing the combat effectiveness of the aircraft during day, night and under-the-weather conditions in the attack of ground targets with a variety of standoff weapons under the guidance of LASERs and the help of high resolution forward-looking infrared sensor (FLIR) for visual display in the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum and charged coupled device (CCD-TV) camera used to obtain target imagery in the visible portion, this technology could also be used in real-time transmission to ground communications networks and government agencies to gather battlefield intelligence, assess battlefield damage, assess terrorist activities and counter drug activity, further advancing the B-52H's capabilities and uses.
The Air Force intends to keep the B-52 in service until at least 2040, an unprecedented length of service for a military aircraft.[4][61] B-52s are periodically refurbished at the USAF maintenance depots such as Tinker Air Force Base, Oklahoma.
Boeing suggested re-engining the B-52H fleet with the Rolls-Royce RB211 534E-4. This would involve replacing the eight Pratt Whitney TF33s (total thrust 8 × 17,000lb) with four RB211s (total thrust 4 × 37,400lb). The RR engines will increase the range and payload of the fleet and reduce fuel consumption. However, the cost of the project would be significant. Procurement would cost approximately US$2.56 billion (US$36 million × 71 aircraft). A General Accounting Office study of the proposal concluded that Boeing's estimated savings of US$4.7 billion would not be realized. They found that it would cost the Air Force US$1.3 billion over keeping the existing engines.[62] This was subsequently disputed in a Defense Sciences Board report in 2003 and revised in 2004 that identified numerous errors in the prior evaluation of the Boeing proposal, and urged the Air Force to re-engine the aircraft without delay. Further, the DSB report stated the program would save substantial funds, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and increase aircraft range and endurance, duplicating the results of a Congressionally funded US$3M program office study conducted in 2003.[63]
The USAF continues to rely on the B-52 because it remains an effective economical heavy bomber, particularly in the type of missions that have been conducted since the end of the Cold War, mainly against nations that have limited air defense capabilities. The B-52's capacity to "loiter" for extended periods over (or even well outside) the battlefield, while delivering precision standoff and direct fire munitions, has been a valuable asset in conflicts such as Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.
The speed and stealth of the B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit have only been useful until enemy air defenses were destroyed, a task that has been swiftly achieved in recent conflicts. The B-52 boasts the highest mission capable rate of the three types of heavy bombers operated by the USAF. Whereas the B-1 averages a 53% ready rate, and the B-2 achieved a 26%, the B-52 averages 80%
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Ready Rate??? No Such thing!!!! - aircraft are either "MC" - "Mission Capable" or "FMC" - "Fully Mission Capable." I don't believe you could go lower than 75% on any combat aircraft, so I don't know where you got that from...
ToughOmbre
Senior Master Sergeant
The B-52 is to bombers what the C-47 is to transports. If for no other reason, an aircraft in service for over 50 years gets my vote.
TO
TO
sorry sir a bit of a typo mistake
drgondog
Major
For me it is an easy question. If the US had one and one only bomber ( I mean quantity of ONE) which would constitute the gravest threat to a potential adversary?
I won't say, other than it should be obvious on that selection criteria...
If you factor cost, dash speed, load capability as the key criteria you might have a different answer... but current 'unstoppable' capability, extreme range, mix of many JDAM or Special's, would normally lead to this choice?
drgondog
Major
If the question is 'What is the greatest bomber of all time" my answer is B-52 hands down - but not the 'Greatest Modern Bomber' as that question should relate to lethality and ability to carry the mission to the highest threat environment anywhere - and neither the B52 or B-1 could lay claim to that although B-1 closer to description.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
So those number (where ever you got them from) were probably FMC rates - which are harder to make. Something as simple as a domelight could make an aircraft go from FMC to MC.
MC and FMC rates are also dependant on the amount of aircraft deployed. I actually work on a program where we have 3 aircraft. We have no FMC requirements but must maintain a 66% MC rate. There are certain things that preclude us from taking a "hit" from the AF.
As for Mission Readiness. We called it OR Rate and we kept our aircraft at 90% or higher. I really doubt the USAF keeps its squadrons at such a low level as 53% or 26%.
Wherever you got that info is wrong.
SoD Stitch
Banned
Well, since a couple of people didn't vote for a bomber that was on the list, so will I . . . . I vote for the XB-70A. True, it was never operational, but it was potentially the greatest modern bomber. I don't think we'll ever see it's like again . . . .
drgondog
Major
Well, since a couple of people didn't vote for a bomber that was on the list, so will I . . . . I vote for the XB-70A. True, it was never operational, but it was potentially the greatest modern bomber. I don't think we'll ever see it's like again . . . .
Magnificent ship. Like the YF-12/SR-71 it represented a peak of pure airframe design around the global strategic mission...
Then one day in the Rose Graden, JFK took LeMay for a 'walk n' talk' and it was dead.
