N4521U
Colonel
Sanity reigns!
Group Build Clarification - needed for the future.
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Vic Balshaw
Major General
Once again Terry, many thanks for that informative narrative and for your time and effort.
Up to now I have just sat back and read the comments being voiced. First of all I would like to thank you for the support that has been given over my involvement and the publication of the new GB listing and I think that having a couple of early threads opened up on the next upcoming GB for clarification of its theme and members questions or comments is a good idea. Should it be decided to have this, in conjunction with a moderator, I would be more than happy to facilitate and monitor the threads.
It's a shame you were not around Rusty when the listing was compiled as I'm sure your input would have been most beneficial. Also just to clarify one or two points "the list", though seemingly very long, was compiled from all the member suggestions and the final tally was from the poll taken from members as to their preferences. All this information can be found under either "The New Generation Group Builds Listing" thread from page 12 entry #176 onward or "The New generation Group Builds 2013 onwards" thread which publishes the latest list.
Like many of you I have planned much of my stash around the future GB and as and when the market provides, I also purchase appropriate models to fit the other GBs that may well be a number of years down the track. The market is not always accommodating just when you want it, hence for many of us, the reason for a stash. May I also state at this point that on a couple of occasions in past GBs, I have attempted a diorama and as far as I know, for any of you guys out there who want to have a go at one, be it a battle scene, a crash or whatever, as far as I know, there is nothing in the guidelines (rules) stopping you .
For myself, I like the GBs, they provide a focal point, a target, a goal, something to be achieved, whatever...... But most of all they are a joy, somewhere where I can personally pitch my skills against a superior builder, where I can pick up hints to improve on my abilities and where I can provide help and guidance to other no matter what level their skill. In other words, it's a club or as we refer to it "A Family" where we have fun. It is where we provide information to others, be it in the detailing and showing of individual builds, giving praise or providing information in the form of pictures, building processes, ideas or thoughts, this is pitching in. As is often the case, a lot of information is passed behind the scenes through PMs, email and post where a lot of swapping of spares or sending of models or modelling aids to other members takes place.
I also feel the judging is crucial to the function of the GB and that it should be retained. It's all very well saying let's just do the "Member Choice" and rearranging it so we have a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place, but this would not achieve the function of the GB in its concept of a, all be it a loosely defined, competition. The "Members Choice" is what some perceive as the most attractive, pretty, impressive or stunning build, where as the judged model will be looked at closely for the models construction, alignment, decaling, paint work and detailing as well as the overall accuracy of the build. In other words, the judging of a build is a totally different ballgame to that of just selecting the members best build. However, the two do go together nicely and though as a judge, I'm not party to a placing in a build category, I do enjoy participating in the "Members Choice" and I look forward with excitement to the category results.
I must agree that there is a core of members who constantly contribute to the GBs, but there are also a considerable number of other members who consistently contribute to either the "Start to Finish Builds" thread and "You Completed Kits" thread, many of whom have often stated they would like to do a GB build but are unsure of being able to complete the build within the four month period, because of such things as work, family, social or other commitments. So though we only seemingly have a strong core of committed modellers with a trickle of other contestants popping in from time to time, it is my belief that the modelling section of this forum is very strongly supported through the other avenues open to members and visitors. Still beating the drum, one also only has to look at the number of posts to a build tread verses the number of viewings to realise that there is also a lot of curiosity out there from either other members or visitors.
Okay guys, I've had my say and I hope nobody has been offended, but if you have, please accept my most humble apologies and chastise me if you feel you must!!!.........................and to end, to all of you out there in this big wide world, be you a moderator, a judge, a diehard modeller, a vocal participant or a simple visitor. Thank you for being what you are, for the use of your free time, for your contribution, your knowledge, your humour and your friendship.
THANK YOU
VicB
Up to now I have just sat back and read the comments being voiced. First of all I would like to thank you for the support that has been given over my involvement and the publication of the new GB listing and I think that having a couple of early threads opened up on the next upcoming GB for clarification of its theme and members questions or comments is a good idea. Should it be decided to have this, in conjunction with a moderator, I would be more than happy to facilitate and monitor the threads.
It's a shame you were not around Rusty when the listing was compiled as I'm sure your input would have been most beneficial. Also just to clarify one or two points "the list", though seemingly very long, was compiled from all the member suggestions and the final tally was from the poll taken from members as to their preferences. All this information can be found under either "The New Generation Group Builds Listing" thread from page 12 entry #176 onward or "The New generation Group Builds 2013 onwards" thread which publishes the latest list.
Like many of you I have planned much of my stash around the future GB and as and when the market provides, I also purchase appropriate models to fit the other GBs that may well be a number of years down the track. The market is not always accommodating just when you want it, hence for many of us, the reason for a stash. May I also state at this point that on a couple of occasions in past GBs, I have attempted a diorama and as far as I know, for any of you guys out there who want to have a go at one, be it a battle scene, a crash or whatever, as far as I know, there is nothing in the guidelines (rules) stopping you .
For myself, I like the GBs, they provide a focal point, a target, a goal, something to be achieved, whatever...... But most of all they are a joy, somewhere where I can personally pitch my skills against a superior builder, where I can pick up hints to improve on my abilities and where I can provide help and guidance to other no matter what level their skill. In other words, it's a club or as we refer to it "A Family" where we have fun. It is where we provide information to others, be it in the detailing and showing of individual builds, giving praise or providing information in the form of pictures, building processes, ideas or thoughts, this is pitching in. As is often the case, a lot of information is passed behind the scenes through PMs, email and post where a lot of swapping of spares or sending of models or modelling aids to other members takes place.
I also feel the judging is crucial to the function of the GB and that it should be retained. It's all very well saying let's just do the "Member Choice" and rearranging it so we have a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place, but this would not achieve the function of the GB in its concept of a, all be it a loosely defined, competition. The "Members Choice" is what some perceive as the most attractive, pretty, impressive or stunning build, where as the judged model will be looked at closely for the models construction, alignment, decaling, paint work and detailing as well as the overall accuracy of the build. In other words, the judging of a build is a totally different ballgame to that of just selecting the members best build. However, the two do go together nicely and though as a judge, I'm not party to a placing in a build category, I do enjoy participating in the "Members Choice" and I look forward with excitement to the category results.
I must agree that there is a core of members who constantly contribute to the GBs, but there are also a considerable number of other members who consistently contribute to either the "Start to Finish Builds" thread and "You Completed Kits" thread, many of whom have often stated they would like to do a GB build but are unsure of being able to complete the build within the four month period, because of such things as work, family, social or other commitments. So though we only seemingly have a strong core of committed modellers with a trickle of other contestants popping in from time to time, it is my belief that the modelling section of this forum is very strongly supported through the other avenues open to members and visitors. Still beating the drum, one also only has to look at the number of posts to a build tread verses the number of viewings to realise that there is also a lot of curiosity out there from either other members or visitors.
Okay guys, I've had my say and I hope nobody has been offended, but if you have, please accept my most humble apologies and chastise me if you feel you must!!!.........................and to end, to all of you out there in this big wide world, be you a moderator, a judge, a diehard modeller, a vocal participant or a simple visitor. Thank you for being what you are, for the use of your free time, for your contribution, your knowledge, your humour and your friendship.
THANK YOU
VicB
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- Thread starter
- #43
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm offended - you didn't mention the weather!
Cheers Vic, you've covered a lot of good points there.
Cheers Vic, you've covered a lot of good points there.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Geez Vic, you're making me cry. 
Oh no! Where did we go wrong? That certainly wasn't the intent!!!!
Oh no! Where did we go wrong? That certainly wasn't the intent!!!!
Rustybugs
Banned
I told Terry I didn't want to this and everything that has been said I told him would be said, almost verbatim, but he bullied me into it. I still think that a 6 year lead on GB's is too much. But that is an opinion that's all. So relax. The main point that I was trying to get across to Terry and in my post was. Step out the box of this forum, now look at it as a newcomer looks at it. You folks can be intimidating. Everyone of you looks at it as your place, all com-fee and warm. No there will not be any changes, not on my shift! That's what a lot of newbies see. Most modelers are very flexible in their attitudes concerning the hobby, some are die hards. A young modeler, not a kid, but someone new may be afraid to even question anything if he or she sees no flexibility. Now there is nothing wrong with what is going on here. Never said it, never thought it. But a lot of you still come across as tolerant of new ideas as long as they don't upset your way of doing things.
If I was here back in May or June when the new list was drawn up, there wouldn't have been any changes from what it is now maybe when a build would be done in a different order. You folks here have it the way you want it and that's all there is to it. It not wrong, it's just the way you folks prefer it. But I did manage to put it out there, hopefully the new guys will read this thread and know where they stand. They will know what they can and can't suggest with any hope of change.
So I would appreciate the hate thoughts stopping
If I was here back in May or June when the new list was drawn up, there wouldn't have been any changes from what it is now maybe when a build would be done in a different order. You folks here have it the way you want it and that's all there is to it. It not wrong, it's just the way you folks prefer it. But I did manage to put it out there, hopefully the new guys will read this thread and know where they stand. They will know what they can and can't suggest with any hope of change.
So I would appreciate the hate thoughts stopping
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Crimea_River
Marshal
Really? "Hate mail"?
Rustybugs
Banned
No sir, not a one. I was mistaken there are no mail in my mail box. no sir. changed the previous post to thoughts sorry.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Actually, it was the "hate" part that concerned me more..........
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Not to mention "bullied"....................!!
N4521U
Colonel
Hate, Bullied?
Perceived mate, not directed.
Now you got me riled up........ now that it is in the open that you contacted a moderator regarding Changes to the way this forum operates it's GB's. I would ask why this subject could not have been brought up in an open thread? Instead of bothering a moderator and judge behind the backs of the general members with ideas for changes? I think this is something that has been gnawing at me. And why would a Member at large suggest Not bringing it out to the general members of the forum???? How many Others have you contacted outside of the forum? This is not the way this forum is conducted.
You must be able to see into the future if you Knew it would play out like it did. If you did, you must have a motive to bring this up to play out in the first place. Personally I would Not ever suggest change of a forum after a few months membership. No less not even participating in a GB of which you find so unorganized and unfair!
I don't hate you, I just don't understand you.
If a moderator finds this post out of line, feel free to delete it. I won't be offended.
***** Speaking as a Mod, this post is not offensive and actually hit the mark ! ~C
Perceived mate, not directed.
Now you got me riled up........ now that it is in the open that you contacted a moderator regarding Changes to the way this forum operates it's GB's. I would ask why this subject could not have been brought up in an open thread? Instead of bothering a moderator and judge behind the backs of the general members with ideas for changes? I think this is something that has been gnawing at me. And why would a Member at large suggest Not bringing it out to the general members of the forum???? How many Others have you contacted outside of the forum? This is not the way this forum is conducted.
You must be able to see into the future if you Knew it would play out like it did. If you did, you must have a motive to bring this up to play out in the first place. Personally I would Not ever suggest change of a forum after a few months membership. No less not even participating in a GB of which you find so unorganized and unfair!
I don't hate you, I just don't understand you.
If a moderator finds this post out of line, feel free to delete it. I won't be offended.
***** Speaking as a Mod, this post is not offensive and actually hit the mark ! ~C
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A4K
Colonel
Cheers Vic - if that is the objective of the judging, then the idea atleast is good.
I still disagree that builds need to be judged to be interesting or fun though, has the opposite effect with me.
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meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
"Hate thoughts"?
Rusty, I re-read the entire thread and cannot find anything close to hate, or even sarcasm directed towards you. There was an effort to address and explain the points you brought up in a manner befitting adults having a conversation. When I first joined, a little over a year ago, I questioned a manner in which the forum was operated. I recieved replies that were straightforward and concise. I did not then assume that, just because my idea wasn't acted on, the members were afraid to "step outside the box", much less that there was a concert of hate directed towards me. I merely confined my efforts to areas that I get enjoyment out of, and avoid the sections that I do not.
That you can construe unwillingness to restructure an entire section of this forum and the hours of work that have gone into it, just to suit you, into anything like "hate", is unwarranted, and quite frankly, insulting.
Phrases such as "let the flames begin", and "hate" anything, seem like you are trying to provoke issues where there are none.
Rusty, I re-read the entire thread and cannot find anything close to hate, or even sarcasm directed towards you. There was an effort to address and explain the points you brought up in a manner befitting adults having a conversation. When I first joined, a little over a year ago, I questioned a manner in which the forum was operated. I recieved replies that were straightforward and concise. I did not then assume that, just because my idea wasn't acted on, the members were afraid to "step outside the box", much less that there was a concert of hate directed towards me. I merely confined my efforts to areas that I get enjoyment out of, and avoid the sections that I do not.
That you can construe unwillingness to restructure an entire section of this forum and the hours of work that have gone into it, just to suit you, into anything like "hate", is unwarranted, and quite frankly, insulting.
Phrases such as "let the flames begin", and "hate" anything, seem like you are trying to provoke issues where there are none.
T Bolt
Colonel
Could not have said it better myself Paul
well put Paul
ccheese
Member In Perpetuity
The posts put up by Bill and Paul were spot on. The only mention of "hate" and "flames" have come from the individual who started all this, and quite frankly I believe it's time for it all to end. I see no good coming from it, and if it continues, either myself or Chris (Der Adler) is going to step in as "a mod" and there will be hell to pay. Rustybugs has made his pitch for changes, which, by and large, have been rejected by the members. Vic and Terry seem to have seen some merit in something he suggested, and I'm sure it will be put forth to the members when they iron it out.
I must admit, I am somewhat offended, too.
That being said, in what I consider a civil and non-threatening manner, I would like the members who participate in the GB's, and who feel offended by the remarks and statement made, to just back off a bit...... chalking it up to perhaps "youth" and someone who feels he is an "outsider", when, if fact, he is not. Comments, when put forth in an respectable manner, are always welcome.
This does not have to result in an ending that none of us want.
Charles
I must admit, I am somewhat offended, too.
That being said, in what I consider a civil and non-threatening manner, I would like the members who participate in the GB's, and who feel offended by the remarks and statement made, to just back off a bit...... chalking it up to perhaps "youth" and someone who feels he is an "outsider", when, if fact, he is not. Comments, when put forth in an respectable manner, are always welcome.
This does not have to result in an ending that none of us want.
Charles
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
I'm Just glad that nobody's so far pointed the finger at the character, who started this whole blasted thing with GB's
I'm not taking part in any or some of the GB's for the judging as such (still part of the fun though), more for the fun of the whole thing, build your kits (or try to) in the comfort of your own home, instead for having to travel to some local club, this way, you're close to your pu...fridge and kettle etc., the most important 'judging' to me (and this is just me) is when the more 'in the know' members helps out with suggestion for corrections, try this or this, if you want to do this particular version, you need to do this or that.
Back in the day, them there dark ages, well before these GB's, I'd have built anything and everything out of the box, decals that is, all the big names, all those (...and I do most humbly apologise for using this expression here) poster boys orwhatyoucallit, nowadays (I should have picked another username), I stick with my '13's', USS Yorktown CV-5 and CV-10, USS Coral Sea CV(A)-43, those with Swedish heritage like 'Ira' Bong, 'Bud' Anderson (Old Crow fame), 'Flip' Anderson (VP-33 Black Cat pilot) and more recently, which I've just started doing, look more and more into 'MIA', like the RAAF Catalina A24-13 (MIA since 24th of February '42, miiiiight add her to this GB) which, like many, many other, deserves mentioning just as much as the 'big guns'...for the plain simple and in your face reason, the have still not come home...this sometimes, well, all the time gets to me, most of the time you get the reason, shot down (like my Cat above), mechanical problems, weather, presumed crashed, but then, more often than not, all the reason you get is 'unknown'...
Them there GB's fault, whose blasted idea was it anyway!?
Aye, I know, before someone else say something, I know that I suffer from a severe case of CUFGBS, Chronically Unable to Finish a Group Build Syndrome...
The Cat that I'm thinking of:
RAAF A-24 Catalina;
A24-13, C/N 307;
Delivered by Qantas as VH-AFN 19/09/41.
11 Sqn 16/11/41.
MIA 24/02/42, Rabaul.
Crew;
SQNLDR Ern Beaumont (Pilot),
PLTOFF Michael Evans (2nd Pilot),
SGT Ray Richardson, (2nd Wireless Op/Air Gunner),
CPL Ray Adams (1st Engineer),
LAC Max Berghouse (2nd Engineer),
LAC George Formby (1st Wireless Op),
LAC Clive Grainger (Rigger),
AC1 Leonard Farrands (Armour).
with GB's I'm not taking part in any or some of the GB's for the judging as such (still part of the fun though), more for the fun of the whole thing, build your kits (or try to) in the comfort of your own home, instead for having to travel to some local club, this way, you're close to your pu...fridge and kettle etc., the most important 'judging' to me (and this is just me) is when the more 'in the know' members helps out with suggestion for corrections, try this or this, if you want to do this particular version, you need to do this or that.
Back in the day, them there dark ages, well before these GB's, I'd have built anything and everything out of the box, decals that is, all the big names, all those (...and I do most humbly apologise for using this expression here
) poster boys orwhatyoucallit, nowadays (I should have picked another username), I stick with my '13's', USS Yorktown CV-5 and CV-10, USS Coral Sea CV(A)-43, those with Swedish heritage like 'Ira' Bong, 'Bud' Anderson (Old Crow fame), 'Flip' Anderson (VP-33 Black Cat pilot) and more recently, which I've just started doing, look more and more into 'MIA', like the RAAF Catalina A24-13 (MIA since 24th of February '42, miiiiight add her to this GB) which, like many, many other, deserves mentioning just as much as the 'big guns'...for the plain simple and in your face reason, the have still not come home...this sometimes, well, all the time gets to me, most of the time you get the reason, shot down (like my Cat above), mechanical problems, weather, presumed crashed, but then, more often than not, all the reason you get is 'unknown'...Them there GB's fault, whose blasted idea was it anyway!?
Aye, I know, before someone else say something, I know that I suffer from a severe case of CUFGBS, Chronically Unable to Finish a Group Build Syndrome...
The Cat that I'm thinking of:
RAAF A-24 Catalina;
A24-13, C/N 307;
Delivered by Qantas as VH-AFN 19/09/41.
11 Sqn 16/11/41.
MIA 24/02/42, Rabaul.
Crew;
SQNLDR Ern Beaumont (Pilot),
PLTOFF Michael Evans (2nd Pilot),
SGT Ray Richardson, (2nd Wireless Op/Air Gunner),
CPL Ray Adams (1st Engineer),
LAC Max Berghouse (2nd Engineer),
LAC George Formby (1st Wireless Op),
LAC Clive Grainger (Rigger),
AC1 Leonard Farrands (Armour).
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Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Agree with Charles. Whats posted has been done, I would suggest any more personal comments be done by PM.
I would also like to clear up one thing: There appears to be the impression that this is a Modelling Forum. Its not.
Its a Historical forum that happens to have a section on Modelling.
I would also like to clear up one thing: There appears to be the impression that this is a Modelling Forum. Its not.
Its a Historical forum that happens to have a section on Modelling.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Jan, We all know it's your fault, just figured you have enough on your plate without heaping more on you and possibly pushing you over the edge.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
It's not a modelling forum!!??
Would explain the lack of 'birds' then! I'm off!!Feck!
I told Terry I didn't want to this and everything that has been said I told him would be said, almost verbatim, but he bullied me into it. I still think that a 6 year lead on GB's is too much. But that is an opinion that's all. So relax. The main point that I was trying to get across to Terry and in my post was. Step out the box of this forum, now look at it as a newcomer looks at it. You folks can be intimidating. Everyone of you looks at it as your place, all com-fee and warm. No there will not be any changes, not on my shift! That's what a lot of newbies see. Most modelers are very flexible in their attitudes concerning the hobby, some are die hards. A young modeler, not a kid, but someone new may be afraid to even question anything if he or she sees no flexibility. Now there is nothing wrong with what is going on here. Never said it, never thought it. But a lot of you still come across as tolerant of new ideas as long as they don't upset your way of doing things.
If I was here back in May or June when the new list was drawn up, there wouldn't have been any changes from what it is now maybe when a build would be done in a different order. You folks here have it the way you want it and that's all there is to it. It not wrong, it's just the way you folks prefer it. But I did manage to put it out there, hopefully the new guys will read this thread and know where they stand. They will know what they can and can't suggest with any hope of change.
So I would appreciate the hate thoughts stopping
People are doing exactly what you wanted. They are discussing the ideas you brought forth.
I see no hate directed at you.
Since you feel that way, please show me and the other mods where hate is being directed at you. Please quote these hateful words.
