highest kill ratio

[FLYBOYJ]

me 262 kill ratio was 4:1 in the air. Almost all bombers protected by allied fighters. ME262 was not a dogfighter it was a bomber interceptor and fighter bomber. ME 262s often operated with FW 190s for protection especially during takeoffs and landings. The 4:1 ratio against escorted bombers was plent good enough for Germany to win the air war over Germany if only they had enough ME262s. They didn't. They had so few that their contribution was close to zero.

The 4:1 were claims and many unconfirmed when compared to combat loss records.

"German Jets in Combat" by Ethell and Price: "from a detailed study of British and American records it appears in the fighter role it caused the destruction of no more than 150 Allied aircraft-for the loss of about 100 Me 262 in aerial combat"

I'm sure some of members have additional information on this subject.

 

[Dimlee]

Probably those 100 lost included losses during landing and take off?
It would be interesting to now the ratio.

 

[alsaad]

I think Soren got it right the first time. The F15 has no losses in air to air. I think the same is said for the F16 as well. I think both of them have over 100 kills with no losses.

So, the loss rate doesn't exist for them because there are no air to air losses. Technically, they have no loss rate.

F15D from IAF killed by Syrian MIG21MF with R60 missile on 09 of June 1982. So even IAF F15 score is much higher it is not true that no F15 was shoot down.

 

[Randy]

Probably those 100 lost included losses during landing and take off?
It would be interesting to now the ratio.

The jet engines had a tendency to "flame out" at high speeds in high altitudes (bombers flew high). After flameout they were easy pickings for Mustangs unless FW190s were able to help

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

F15D from IAF killed by Syrian MIG21MF with R60 missile on 09 of June 1982. So even IAF F15 score is much higher it is not true that no F15 was shoot down.

Hmmmm, I'm not so sure about that. You got any info on that? I'm not showing that in the list of losses...

 

[soulezoo]

Hmmmm, I'm not so sure about that. You got any info on that? I'm not showing that in the list of losses...

Only a guess, but he may be referring to "Operation Mole Cricket". Officially 2 F-15's were damaged but repaired and returned to service. However, in Wiki, I found this quote:
"The Soviet military newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda announced that "sixty-seven Israeli aircraft, including modern US-made F-15 and F-16 fighters, were downed" in the fighting. The newspaper also reported a meeting with a Syrian airman who recounted an engagement in which he shot down an Israeli F-15: "The victory had not been easy; the enemy had been subtle". Even within Soviet ranks, these claims met with great skepticism.[27]"

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Only a guess, but he may be referring to "Operation Mole Cricket". Officially 2 F-15's were damaged but repaired and returned to service. However, in Wiki, I found this quote:
"The Soviet military newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda announced that "sixty-seven Israeli aircraft, including modern US-made F-15 and F-16 fighters, were downed" in the fighting. The newspaper also reported a meeting with a Syrian airman who recounted an engagement in which he shot down an Israeli F-15: "The victory had not been easy; the enemy had been subtle". Even within Soviet ranks, these claims met with great skepticism.[27]"

I am sure that is it as well, but there is no evidence to back it up.

 

[Dimlee]

"The Soviet military newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda announced

I used to be avid reader of Krasnaya Zvezda in late 1970s and 1980s. Now I consider the time spent on reading that newspaper as completely wasted.

 

[BiffF15]

F15D from IAF killed by Syrian MIG21MF with R60 missile on 09 of June 1982. So even IAF F15 score is much higher it is not true that no F15 was shoot down.

Proof?

This is news to MacAir and Boeing, as well as the IAF. Boeing advertises a 104 to Zero kill ratio.

I sense a "we didn't put a man on the moon" scale cover up. Or not...

If the Russians had truly brought down an Eagle they would advertise it, just like we do when we drop their stuff. It's how you sell planes.

There was also a poster put out after Desert Storm stating every enemy fighter downed was by an airplane built by MacD.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

 

[alsaad]

Here it is...Book, data and bibliography...it is in Bosnian language but I think you'll manage to get it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And where is the evidence to back it up? I can write anything I want.

The sun is green. There you go, it's fact.

 

[alsaad]

I just copied from the book just like mostly everyone here gains a knowledge from the literature. And also question can be asked where is the evidence that it didn't happened?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I just copied from the book just like mostly everyone here gains a knowledge from the literature. And also question can be asked where is the evidence that it didn't happened?

When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them. Have you looked at IDF loss reports, and compared to this claim?

The book you posted is not evidence.

 

[alsaad]

Is there a possibility that for some reason Israelis might not publish a loss of F15?

 

[fubar57]

The June 9, '82 battle mentioned in the book above...

This dogfight between 200 Israeli and Syrian jets was one of the biggest of all time

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Is there a possibility that for some reason Israelis might not publish a loss of F15?

Why would the Syrians or the Russians who back them not show wreckage as evidence? It would have been in the best interest for them to do so. Look what the Serbs did when they shot down the F-117...

Why would family members not come forward over the years and grieve for their lost loved one?

Again the burden of proof lies in the person making the claim. No evidence? Then it's just a claim and nothing else. Everything points to possible damage, being returned to service, if anything.

 

[michael rauls]

Why would the Syrians or the Russians who back them not show wreckage as evidence? It would have been in the best interest for them to do so. Look what the Serbs did when they shot down the F-117...

Why would family members not come forward over the years and grieve for their lost loved one?

Again the burden of proof lies in the person making the claim. No evidence? Then it's just a claim and nothing else. Everything points to possible damage, being returned to service, if anything.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. If an F15 had indeed been shot down it would have been in Russian media for months. Heck, some of our own media tends to be a bit hostile to all things military and would have been more than happy to relay any Russian footage regarding such a loss.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That's pretty much what I was thinking. If an F15 had indeed been shot down it would have been in Russian media for months. Heck, some of our own media tends to be a bit hostile to all things military and would have been more than happy to relay any Russian footage regarding such a loss.

It would have been all over our media.

"Soviet backed Syrian jets shoot down American built Israeli F-15!"

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I just copied from the book just like mostly everyone here gains a knowledge from the literature. And also question can be asked where is the evidence that it didn't happened?

Its funny - the author of that book seems to use several internet sources that show some of the same kills as unconfirmed and probables