If italy Joined the allies World War 2

[Thumpalumpacus]

knocking out a major player in the war????

"Major" in what sense? Where do you envision the Italians fighting the Germans?

Much easier to get at France than Italy, from the German perspective. It also concentrates one's efforts against the most powerful army threat it faces. Germans getting bogged down in Italy while the French have 100 divisions right across the Rhine?

I don't think the Germans were that stupid. Relying on one's enemy to to do as you wish is no way to run a railroad -- or prosecute a war.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

yes but it would still be pressure plus bombing from Italy by the Regia Aeronautica and royal navy which needed the diversion of forces

again it never happened so we don't know what would have happened but whatever

What pressure? Italy had no capability to invade Germany in any meaningful manner. At most they could capture a few towns in Austria.

Bombing Germany with what? Italy's air force did not have the capability, strength, or range to launch a serious or effective bombing campaign past the Austrian region (if that). Let alone any strategic campaign.

Sure they had a good Navy, but what good will it do in the end?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

During the invasion of France Italy declared war at the end that is why they didn't even bother trying to defend south France

Actually, the French did bother defending the Italian invasion, with six divisions. I think the 32 Italian divisions got, what, 20 miles into France before the Armistice was signed?

 

[pops-paolo]

Actually, the French did bother defending the Italian invasion, with six divisions. I think the 32 Italian divisions got, what, 20 miles into France before the Armistice was signed?

i know but if they had an ally there they would fall back there

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

4 million men is not nothing they would divert forces and even help France.

How so? Does Italy have the logistics to get 4 million men into France. Nope...

 

[pops-paolo]

What pressure? Italy had no capability to invade Germany in any meaningful manner. At most they could capture a few towns in Austria.

Bombing Germany with what? Italy's air force did not have the capability, strength, or range to launch a serious or effective bombing campaign past the Austrian region (if that). Let alone any strategic campaign.

Sure they had a good Navy, but what good will it do in the end?

again you underestimate the fact Germany neds to split its forces even if its a 1:3 ratio in Italy that's still enough

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

i know but if they had an ally there they would fall back there

If the French have been that badly beaten that their flank is rolled up, the Maginot is enveloped, and the Germans have crossed the Rhone, that's pretty much game over for France anyway. The Germans at that point would have Paris as a hostage city.

 

[pops-paolo]

How so? Does Italy have the logistics to get 4 million men into France. Nope...

obviously not 4 million in France obviously but some divisions could go

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

they could have held the french alps

They could have done that in reality too, but there is no reason to think they would. By the time they realized what was going on, France was already fallen. They put their entire eggs in the Maginot Line basket. So unless you are moving the goal posts, France still falls.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

again you underestimate the fact Germany neds to split its forces even if its a 1:3 ratio in Italy that's still enough

Why does Germany have to split its forces?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'm not underestimating anything. You are allowing your Italian pride to overestimate Italy's capabilities and military value.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

If the French have been that badly beaten that their flank is rolled up, the Maginot is enveloped, and the Germans have crossed the Rhone, that's pretty much game over for France anyway. The Germans at that point would have Paris as a hostage city.

The only way to make this scenario end differently is to say:

1. The Alps do not exist.
2. Italy has better leadership.
3. Italy has better tactics/doctrine.
4. Italy has better equipment.
5. France has better leadership.
6. France has better tactics/doctrine.

Or...

7. Hitler never comes to power. No WW2.

Or...

8. England and France invade Germany during the invasion of Poland.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

pops-paolo

I'm trying to get you to defend your position.

 

[pops-paolo]

They could have done that in reality too, but there is no reason to think they would. By the time they realized what was going on, France was already fallen. They put their entire eggs in the Maginot Line basket. So unless you are moving the goal posts, France still falls.

ok and then Italy is left with France guarding the west Italy and east is italy

 

[pops-paolo]

Why does Germany have to split its forces?

BECAUSE ITALY IS AT THE SOUTHER FLANK

 

[GrauGeist]

A few things to take into consideration:
Germany, in it's invasion strategy, used the path of least resistance.
The French built a formidable defensive line across their frontier (Maginot line) and relied on that to discourage a German invasion.
As it happens, Germany went around through the Low Countries (just like they did in WWI).
Secondly, Germany had direct access to Italy via Austria, add to that, access via France. Historically, the Germans had not trouble with the Alps, as seen by the battles later in the war against Allied elements.
There was also Hungary, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria within access to Italy's eastern borders (assuming they followed addition to the Axis as was historically) that would be able to provide pressure on north-eastern Italy.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

ok and then Italy is left with France guarding the west Italy and east is italy

Guarding what? As soon as the Germans entered France, France was toast. They were so disorganized. What changes here?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

BECAUSE ITALY IS AT THE SOUTHER FLANK

DOING WHAT????

They were no threat. They were never coming up. Any forces the Germans needed to "defend" the southern front were negligible.

 

[pops-paolo]

A few things to take into consideration:
Germany, in it's invasion strategy, used the path of least resistance.
The French built a formidable defensive line across their frontier (Maginot line) and relied on that to discourage a German invasion.
As it happens, Germany went around through the Low Countries (just like they did in WWI).
Secondly, Germany had direct access to Italy via Austria, add to that, access via France. Historically, the Germans had not trouble with the Alps, as seen by the battles later in the war against Allied elements.
There was also Hungary, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria within access to Italy's eastern borders (assuming they followed addition to the Axis as was historically) that would be able to provide pressure on north-eastern Italy.

no they would not join because there was no pct

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

no they would not join because there was no pct

How do you know?