If italy Joined the allies World War 2

[pops-paolo]

Regardless, the Balkan campaign still demonstrated Italy's lackluster performance. If it needed help from Germany there, how would it fair against the Germans?

look the battle of Greece was bad for Italy but remember Italy was fighting in Africa and just finished France then invaded Yugoslavia. Plus they were fighting in the mountains against an enemy that was dug in and consecrated on a small front with the support of the British. When Germany and Bulgaria invaded they faced little opposition since most greek forces were in Albania.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

".... Lets look at their track record:

North Africa? Needed the Germans to bail them out.

Albania/Greece? Needed the Germans to bail them out."

Good to bare in mind that the Italian military had already been decisively beaten ... in East Africa, Abyssinia. Tribesmen and the Brits.
Deloped a taste for losing ..... despite some outstanding outfits.

Absolutely, I don't think the German's would have been top concerned.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

look the battle of Greece was bad for Italy but remember Italy was fighting in Africa and just finished France then invaded Yugoslavia. Plus they were fighting in the mountains against an enemy that was dug in and consecrated on a small front with the support of the British. When Germany and Bulgaria invaded they faced little opposition since most greek forces were in Albania.

Okay, and Italy was having trouble with second and third rate militaries. What were they going to do with Germany?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Italians had some good units and some not-so-good units.

I believe that their biggest deficiency was in leadership, myself, followed closely by poor equipment (in the Army, at any rate -- they had some fine ships and planes).

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Okay, and Italy was having trouble with second and third rate militaries. What were they going to do with Germany?

Dig into the Alps and dare them to bring it on. Remember, the Italians had three years of Alpine fighting in WWI. I'm sure they knew a strong position when they saw it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Italians had some good units and some not-so-good units.

I believe that their biggest deficiency was in leadership, myself, followed closely by poor equipment (in the Army, at any rate -- they had some fine ships and planes).

I agree. I'm not taking anything away from the soldiers themselves, but when you have poor equipment, doctrine, tactics, and leadership you are not going to have much success. How do you think the Germans were able to muster a good fight against practically the entire world (England, France, USA, Russia, etc.)? They had good equipment (for the most part), great training, excellent doctrine and tactics, and quality leadership (at the military level, not counting that moron Hitler and Görring).

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Dig into the Alps and dare them to bring it on. Remember, the Italians had three years of Alpine fighting in WWI. I'm sure they knew a strong position when they saw it.

I can agree with this, but...

The Germans would not invade Italy in this case. All they had to do was not let the Italians in. So what do we have? A few mountain units staring at each other, lobbing a few rounds at each other every once in a while. A defensive staring contest.

 

[pops-paolo]

Okay, and Italy was having trouble with second and third rate militaries. What were they going to do with Germany?

bro the germans during ww2 could not break through the Maginot line the had to go around early war Germany was about maneuvering not direct attacks

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can agree with this, but...

The Germans would not invade Italy in this case. All they had to do was not let the Italians in. So what do we have? A few mountain units staring at each other, lobbing a few rounds at each other every once in a while. A defensive staring contest.

Exactly, a second Phony War. The best thing about Italy siding with the Allies would be denying Germany access to Sicilian airfields, and no Maltese siege sucking ships and resources in.

 

[pops-paolo]

Exactly, a second Phony War. The best thing about Italy siding with the Allies would be denying Germany access to Sicilian airfields, and no Maltese siege sucking ships and resources in.

yeah and eventually either Britain or America would come in and ww2 would have ended

 

[rochie]

bro the germans during ww2 could not break through the Maginot line the had to go around early war Germany was about maneuvering not direct attacks

that was sound tactics and forward thinking, not a failure !
why attack a defended position when you can bypass it and attack from the rear where they have trouble bringing their large calibre weapons into a position to fire on your own forces ?

 

[pops-paolo]

that was sound tactics and forward thinking, not a failure !
why attack a defended position when you can bypass it and attack from the rear where they have trouble bringing their large calibre weapons into a position to fire on your own forces ?

I'm not saying they were bad they would not have been able to circle around the alps unless they went trough Yugoslavia

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

bro the germans during ww2 could not break through the Maginot line the had to go around early war Germany was about maneuvering not direct attacks

Bro...

What you just described is modern offensive tactics. Something the French had not learned yet.

The Germans never had to go through the Maginot line. So what does that have to do with our hypothetical scenario here? This is about Italy opening a third front against Germany, which in the end would have been another example of "the phony war, and the Italians going "Rah, Rah, Rah, get em boys, while we drink our cappuccino (to the French/British)."

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Exactly, a second Phony War. The best thing about Italy siding with the Allies would be denying Germany access to Sicilian airfields, and no Maltese siege sucking ships and resources in.

Thats true. It is not without benefits.

The more interesting scenario is what would happen if France still fell in this scenario. What does this mean for Russia and the Balkans? Would Italy switch sides?

 

[pops-paolo]

Bro...

What you just described is modern offensive tactics. Something the French had not learned yet.

The Germans never had to go through the Maginot line. So what does that have to do with our hypothetical scenario here? This is about Italy opening a third front against Germany, which in the end would have been another example of "the phony war, and the Italians going "Rah, Rah, Rah, get em boys, while we drink our cappuccino (to the French/British)."

i know but they would not be abe to do that with the alps unless they went through Yugoslavia

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'm not saying they were bad they would not have been able to circle around the alps unless they went trough Yugoslavia

But they did not need to. I already said Germany would not have to invade Italy. Nor would they want to, because Italy would just be sitting there.

 

[pops-paolo]

Thats true. It is not without benefits.

The more interesting scenario is what would happen if France still fell in this scenario. What does this mean for Russia and the Balkans? Would Italy switch sides?

i think the french would retreat defend south France since Italy is on their side now and eventually, they would defend the Italian western alps and they would hold Italy

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

i know but they would not be abe to do that with the alps unless they went through Yugoslavia

Why would Germany need to do that?

 

[pops-paolo]

Why would Germany need to do that?

to go around the mountisn

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

i think the french would retreat defend south France since Italy is on their side now and eventually, they would defend the Italian western alps and they would hold Italy

I think France falls just like it did. Then Italy has Vichy France on its border, and Italy sues for peace.