If italy Joined the allies World War 2

[GrauGeist]

Either way, the BEF and French were fortunate at the stand down order to the Wehrmacht and the inability of the Luftwaffe to produce results as they were bottled up at Dunkirk - the Kreigsmarine being completely conspicuous by their absence...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

One always must think ahead when one is perfidious.

One might also prefer to address points raised.

 

[pops-paolo]

But Italy was not a power either...

it doesn't matter combined they would do a lot better

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

it doesn't matter combined they would do a lot better

Possibly. Maybe, maybe not.

Italy was a pretty big thorn in the sides of the Germans. It may have done the same to the Allies.

 

[Peter Gunn]

Well, we did gain Italy as an ally in 1943, or was it '44? How did that work out?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well, we did gain Italy as an ally in 1943, or was it '44? How did that work out?

Like I said earlier, Italy was perfectly content being on the side of the Nazis when the things were going well. Once it became obvious they were losing they switched sides.

 

[pops-paolo]

Possibly. Maybe, maybe not.

Italy was a pretty big thorn in the sides of the Germans. It may have done the same to the Allies.

1939 Germany would not have been able to break through since they had TWO fronts

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

1939 Germany would not have been able to break through since they had TWO fronts

You are assuming the Italians would have had the capabilities to launch an offensive into Germany. Remember those Alps in the way. Oh, and Switzerland. Italy would have been a cheerleader...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Italy had to be bailed out by the Germans in almost every operation they undertook. What makes you think they could get an Army into Germany in 1939?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

1939 Germany would not have been able to break through since they had TWO fronts

They already had TWO fronts in 1939.

ONE: Western Front (France, Belgium, Netherlands...)

TWO: Eastern Front (Poland)

Italy would have made a southern Third Front, but Germany had Switzerland and the Alps in the way.

 

[pops-paolo]

Well, we did gain Italy as an ally in 1943, or was it '44? How did that work out?

Italy collapsed so I guess it was easier and there was no more Italian navy or airforce really

 

[pops-paolo]

You are assuming the Italians would have had the capabilities to launch an offensive into Germany. Remember those Alps in the way. Oh, and Switzerland. Italy would have been a cheerleader...

yeah

 

[pops-paolo]

They already had TWO fronts in 1939.

ONE: Western Front (France, Belgium, Netherlands...)

TWO: Eastern Front (Poland)

Italy would have made a southern Third Front, but Germany had Switzerland and the Alps in the way.

well they had Austria so they were bordering Italy but we are talking about after Poland fell

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

well they had Austria so they were bordering Italy but we are talking about after Poland fell

After Poland fell, Italy is still a cheerleader. Historically speaking what kind of offensive were they going to launch into Germany? Austria is still an Alpine country. Good luck getting the poor Italian armor through it.

Lets look at their track record:

North Africa? Needed the Germans to bail them out.

Albania/Greece? Needed the Germans to bail them out. Forced the Germans to change their plans for Operation Barbarossa by 6 weeks (which slightly may have impacted whether the German's reached Moscow or not).

 

[pops-paolo]

After Poland fell, Italy is still a cheerleader. Historically speaking what kind of offensive were they going to launch into Germany? Austria is still an Alpine country. Good luck getting the poor Italian armor through it.

Lets look at their track record:

North Africa? Needed the Germans to bail them out.

Albania/Greece? Needed the Germans to bail them out. Forced the Germans to change their plans for Operation Barbarossa by 6 weeks (which slightly may have impacted whether the German's reached Moscow or not).

In 1952, the Historical Branch of the UK Cabinet Office concluded that the Balkan Campaign had no influence on the launching of Operation Barbarossa
According to Robert Kirchubel, "the main causes for deferring Barbarossa's start from 15 May to 22 June were incomplete logistical arrangements and an unusually wet winter that kept rivers at full flood until late spring."
But now Italy has better logistics since it is not fighting in the desert and the royal navy

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

In 1952, the Historical Branch of the UK Cabinet Office concluded that the Balkan Campaign had no influence on the launching of Operation Barbarossa
According to Robert Kirchubel, "the main causes for deferring Barbarossa's start from 15 May to 22 June were incomplete logistical arrangements and an unusually wet winter that kept rivers at full flood until late spring."
But now Italy has better logistics since it is not fighting in the desert and the royal navy

Regardless, the Balkan campaign still demonstrated Italy's lackluster performance. If it needed help from Germany there, how would it fair against the Germans?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Italy would have made a southern Third Front, but Germany had Switzerland and the Alps in the way.

Not after the Anschluss, no? The Brenner Pass?

Any hypothetical invasion in either direction would have been pretty dumb imho. It's ideal defensive terrain.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not after the Anschluss, no? The Brenner Pass?

Any hypothetical invasion in either direction would have been pretty dumb imho. It's ideal defensive terrain.

Exactly!

There is a reason Germany respected Switzerland's neutrality. And regarding this hypothetical scenario here, neither Germany or Italy was going to muster much of a fight on this southern front in 1939.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

But in the end, this is all a fun hypothetical what if anyhow. There is no right or wrong.

 

[michaelmaltby]

".... Lets look at their track record:

North Africa? Needed the Germans to bail them out.

Albania/Greece? Needed the Germans to bail them out."

Good to bare in mind that the Italian military had already been decisively beaten ... in East Africa, Abyssinia. Tribesmen and the Brits.
Deloped a taste for losing ..... despite some outstanding outfits.