If italy Joined the allies World War 2

[Marcel]

One other interesting thought: Having Italy as an ally also seems to have cost the Germans dearly in the sense that the Duce started all kinds of adventures in Greece and North Africa, which in turn costed the Germans a ton of equipment and men to try and bail them out again. What if the Germans would not have fought in Africa? Could they have used all those men and equipment in Russia or against the Allies after D-Day?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

to go around the mountisn

But why? Italy is no serious threat.

Germany needs to concentrate on France. If they succeed in taking France like they did, England goes home, and Italy is just sitting to the south twiddling its thumbs.

 

[pops-paolo]

But why? Italy is no serious threat.

Germany needs to concentrate on France. If they succeed in taking France like they did, England goes home, and Italy is just sitting to the south twiddling its thumbs.

Me saying that was to explain to some one that Germany would not break the alps

 

[pops-paolo]

I think France falls just like it did. Then Italy has Vichy France on its border, and Italy sues for peace.

no I think France would hold south France like the savia region

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

yeah and eventually either Britain or America would come in and ww2 would have ended

Well, that's a whole 'nother conversation, but I don't think the UK could've defeated Germany on its own.

 

[pops-paolo]

One other interesting thought: Having Italy as an ally also seems to have cost the Germans dearly in the sense that the Duce started all kinds of adventures in Greece and North Africa, which in turn costed the Germans a ton of equipment and men to try and bail them out again. What if the Germans would not have fought in Africa? Could they have used all those men and equipment in Russia or against the Allies after D-Day?

dday was way after

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

no I think France would hold south France like the savia region

How so? What would they do differently? The Germans have rolled through the low countries and are driving their tanks at the rear of the maginot line and to the coast. Paris falls. The Germans install the puppet Vichy government. Nothing changes here, unless you want to move the goal posts and say the French figured out modern warfare tactics overnight and changed their leadership. But then you have a completely different what if scenario.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

to go around the mountisn

I think the point is that there's no real need to invade Italy at all. Very scanty natural resources, and whatever benefits might accrue from a German presence in the Med could be fairly easily counteracted by shutting off Gibraltar and the Suez.

What would be the objective of Germany invading Italy?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

But why? Italy is no serious threat.

Germany needs to concentrate on France. If they succeed in taking France like they did, England goes home, and Italy is just sitting to the south twiddling its thumbs.

It's the same reason the Allies decided on Germany First: you go after your most dangerous opponent first. Plenty of time to mop up the weaker ones when convenient.

 

[Marcel]

I think the point is that there's no real need to invade Italy at all. Very scanty natural resources, and whatever benefits might accrue from a German presence in the Med could be fairly easily counteracted by shutting off Gibraltar and the Suez.

What would be the objective of Germany invading Italy?

I guess if Italy would be allied to the Allies, the Germans might be afraid that it would be a landing ground for said Allies, same reason why they attacked Holland.

 

[pops-paolo]

How so? What would they do differently? The Germans have rolled through the low countries and are driving their tanks at the rear of the maginot line and to the coast. Paris falls. The Germans install the puppet Vichy government. Nothing changes here, unless you want to move the goal posts and say the French figured out modern warfare tactics overnight and changed their leadership. But then you have a completely different what if scenario.

During the invasion of France Italy declared war at the end that is why they didn't even bother trying to defend south France

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I guess if Italy would be allied to the Allies, the Germans might be afraid that it would be a landing ground for said Allies, same reason why they attacked Holland.

Sure, but the front would not amount to much with the Alps in the way.

 

[pops-paolo]

I think the point is that there's no real need to invade Italy at all. Very scanty natural resources, and whatever benefits might accrue from a German presence in the Med could be fairly easily counteracted by shutting off Gibraltar and the Suez.

What would be the objective of Germany invading Italy?

knocking out a major player in the war????

 

[pops-paolo]

Sure, but the front would not amount to much with the Alps in the way.

yes but it would still be pressure plus bombing from Italy by the Regia Aeronautica and royal navy which needed the diversion of forces

again it never happened so we don't know what would have happened but whatever

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

During the invasion of France Italy declared war at the end that is why they didn't even bother trying to defend south France

Italy was in no way capable of doing anything to help France in Southern France. Even if the French had forces there, they were still using outdated tactics and doctrine. How would it have prevented the German Blitz? If anything it makes the situation worse for them by thinning out their forces.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I guess if Italy would be allied to the Allies, the Germans might be afraid that it would be a landing ground for said Allies, same reason why they attacked Holland.

Italy -- as noted above -- is far down the list of good routes into Germany, don't you think? If France is still in the war, use the French frontier. If France is knocked out of the war, use their seafront as in OTL.

With it's geography, Italy is a crummy place to fight: mountains perpendicular to the axis of advance, with the occasional river -- also perpendicular to the advance -- to cross as well. Germany could just as easily block any use of Italy as a jump-off point by fortifying the passes. Remember how formidable they were on the defensive.

 

[pops-paolo]

Italy was in no way capable of doing anything to help France in Southern France. Even if the French had forces there, they were still using outdated tactics and doctrine. How would it have prevented the German Blitz? If anything it makes the situation worse for them by thinning out their forces.

they could have held the french alps

 

[pops-paolo]

Italy -- as noted above -- is far down the list of good routes into Germany, don't you think? If France is still in the war, use the French frontier. If France is knocked out of the war, use their seafront as in OTL.

With it's geography, Italy is a crummy place to fight: mountains perpendicular to the axis of advance, with the occasional river -- also perpendicular to the advance -- to cross as well. Germany could just as easily block any use of Italy as a jump-off point by fortifying the passes. Remember how formidable they were on the defensive.

i guess

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

knocking out a major player in the war????

Sorry to bust your bubble my friend, but Italy would not be a major player. What would they be doing?

 

[pops-paolo]

Sorry to bust your bubble my friend, but Italy would not be a major player. What would they be doing?

4 million men is not nothing they would divert forces and even help France.