Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
A Polish pilot in England during the war made the observation that both the English and the Poles ate pork and cabbage as staples, but couldn't understand how the English could screw it up.
If italy Joined the allies World War 2
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Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
Germans (Angles and Saxons, mostly) invaded Britain in the 5th century it is now called England (Land of the Angles). Germans (Franks, mostly) invaded Gaul in the 4th and 5th centuries. It is now called France (Land of the Franks). Germans (heck, just about everybody, like bus loads of tourists) invaded Italy throughout the 4th 5th and 6th centuries, that's why the northern half is called Lombardy. So, everybody in Europe is actually German.
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pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
Bro you are saying that they were not even able to do anything like they would be able to provide pressure and definitely hold for a while
France had NOT the power, not the intention, not the obligation to save Poland .
Britain ? Its first two divisions arrived only at the end of September .
The USSR was NOT a German ally in 1939, it was neutral .
There was nothing wrong with what is wrongly called :the Phoney War .
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pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
yeah see he gets it
But Italy was not a power either...
Really !!!! It was neutral because of the threaty of Rapallo in 1922 and the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact in 1939 and also the invasion on Poland in the September 1939 together with the Nazi Germany.
Not an ally, just invaded Poland at the same time, which of course makes a huge difference, because of the non aggression pact.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Britain promised to come to Poland's aid in March 1939.
France promised to come to Poland's aid in May 1939.
Both declarations above were signed pacts.
In 1940, France had a standing army of 900,000 with a 5 million reserve.
They had 100 divisions strung across their eastern Frontier facing Germany.
There were 3 full armored divisions on alert which included 4,200 AFVs (tanks)
Their air Force strength was 1,092 bombers and 1,114 fighters.
France most certainly had the ability to stop Germany. What They did NOT have, was competent leadership to use those superior numbers to their advantage against the Germans.
Invading Poland is neutal?
cherry blossom
Senior Airman
- 515
- Apr 23, 2007
First a note on France in 1939. Because mobilizations were remembered as a possible cause of WW1, there was great hesitancy to mobilize. Thus the numbers for 1940 are not relevant in early September 1939. Poland was also urged not to mobilize and that weakened Polish resistance and speeded up the German advance.
Coming back to Italy, Britain, France and Italy did agree an alliance in 1935 Stresa Front - Wikipedia but then everything fell apart. If something happened to prevent Italy attacking Abyssinia, such as an accident to Mussolini, we can imagine the alliance surviving. It would be activated by any German move against Austria, so no need to worry the Poles or the Czechs.
Previous posters have noted that the equipment of the Italian Army was poor. However, if the Stresa Alliance had survived from 1935 to 1938-9, the Italian Army would have received the priority that in our timeline went to the Navy. We might not have the Littorio Class battleships completed but instead very similar 37 mm and 90 mm guns would be deployed as AA guns on land. We might also see more Cannone da 75/32 modello 37 and also more Obice da 149/19 modello 37, which were both quite reasonable guns.
Coming back to Italy, Britain, France and Italy did agree an alliance in 1935 Stresa Front - Wikipedia but then everything fell apart. If something happened to prevent Italy attacking Abyssinia, such as an accident to Mussolini, we can imagine the alliance surviving. It would be activated by any German move against Austria, so no need to worry the Poles or the Czechs.
Previous posters have noted that the equipment of the Italian Army was poor. However, if the Stresa Alliance had survived from 1935 to 1938-9, the Italian Army would have received the priority that in our timeline went to the Navy. We might not have the Littorio Class battleships completed but instead very similar 37 mm and 90 mm guns would be deployed as AA guns on land. We might also see more Cannone da 75/32 modello 37 and also more Obice da 149/19 modello 37, which were both quite reasonable guns.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
... nor the political will, imho.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
And that cost them 2 million soldiers captured and 390,000 killed when the dust settled.
It also set the stage for what unfolded in Europe for the next 4 1/2 years.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Indeed. The stage for the French defeat was set, I think, long before Poland was invaded, and has more to do with French politics that French equipment or the French fighting man. The poilus showed valor and determination during the second half of the campaign, trying to overcome the inept leadership of the first half. It simply wasn't enough by that point.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
I often hear of the perfidious French, but wasn't it the British who slunk back to The Home Islands while the fight was still raging?
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I think the phrase is "perfidious Albion" (referring to Britain), but did the Brits have much choice in the matter in 1940? The Royal Army used different equipment, meaning specialized logistics, and how would that work if falling back with the French onto Paris, with Channel ports captured?
Seems to me the choice of evacuation wasn't a matter of "slinking", but thinking ahead.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
One always must think ahead when one is perfidious.
