JAS 39 Gripen is growing up.... (2 Viewers)

[Steamed_Banana]

The biggest worry at the moment is the software that we cannot maintain ourselves. If, god forbid, we would have had to defend Greenland against the US, they could easily have made this mighty fighter inoperable.

Luckily everybody got wiser, but it was an eye opener.

That is indeed a major issue IMO, and the Greenland situation sure did highlight it

 

[Steamed_Banana]

That goes for everything. The US government and US-based firms control all our computers, mobile devices and GPS nav systems, including those used by government agencies across the Western-aligned world and beyond. I expect the same goes for defence and weapons systems.

It's time to give that a long and hard rethink and (I think!) invest some serious money in developing Linux

 

[MiTasol]

A lot of embedded systems already run Linux but that does not mean you can edit it.

You can reverse engineer it tho.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

A lot of embedded systems already run Linux but that does not mean you can edit it.

Europe needs to do some work on Linux so they can replace MS products because recent events make it pretty clear why they need to do that PDQ

 

[Steamed_Banana]

It was pretty interesting and amusing to skim this whole thread and see how long the rivalry between SAAB and Lockheed Martin has been going on, how it has developed, and how discussions about various issues evolved as recent and current news events unfolded.

 

[Marcel]

Europe needs to do some work on Linux so they can replace MS products because recent events make it pretty clear why they need to do that PDQ

Agreed. There is now an initiative to create "Euro office", based on opensource code. This is a cooperation with Nextcloud, an opensource cloud solution. I hope they really pull this off and get us away from big tech. But there will have to be a major mental shift for this to succeed.

 

[MiTasol]

There are a number of Linux office programs that do almost everything MS Office does, but, because they are not cloud based, are not as susceptible to EMP and spying by the USA and Russia. The sooner that nations realize that the Russia, and others, can kill all their cloud based MSOffice files and records with a well placed EMP the better.

 

[buffnut453]

There are a number of Linux office programs that do almost everything MS Office does, but, because they are not cloud based, are not as susceptible to EMP and spying by the USA and Russia. The sooner that nations realize that the Russia, and others, can kill all their cloud based MSOffice files and records with a well placed EMP the better.

Personally, I HATE being forced to store my crap in the cloud. It's my stuff and I want it where I can control it. The push to Office 360 has long been on my personal hate list.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

As someone living in the US, I wish the Europeans and others can pull this off, because it will make our lives so much easier too not to be trapped with no alternative. Of course they'll probably try to make EuroOffice illegal...

 

[Marcel]

There are a number of Linux office programs that do almost everything MS Office does, but, because they are not cloud based, are not as susceptible to EMP and spying by the USA and Russia. The sooner that nations realize that the Russia, and others, can kill all their cloud based MSOffice files and records with a well placed EMP the better.

I have been happily running Linux and opensource software as my main OS for the last 17 years. In the beginning it was a big step, you needed quite a bit of technical knowledge to run Linux back in the day, but nowadays I dare to say that many Linux distros are more user friendly than Windows. They all come pre installed with the software you need, including Libre Office, the current alternative for MS Office.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

I have been happily running Linux and opensource software as my main OS for the last 17 years. In the beginning it was a big step, you needed quite a bit of technical knowledge to run Linux back in the day, but nowadays I dare to say that many Linux distros are more user friendly than Windows. They all come pre installed with the software you need, including Libre Office, the current alternative for MS Office.

LibreOffice and and OpenOffice are close, but usually a generation or two behind MS Office on some key features. I think with a little funding from EU (and other) governments they could quickly catch up and surpass the competition, if you will. I used it in the past for desktop publishing and writing, but had to go back to MS. i would love to transition back to Linux 100% personally. I hate SAAS, I hate being spied on and served ads, and not being able to own what you buy, don't want to use the cloud at all and MS, Adobe etc. like most of the US big tech firms, is a great big trap in so many ways.

It's bad enough for individuals, but it's a real problem for European governments to be so dependent on this software. To have some degree of autonomy they need to develop the alternative, and I don't think it's out of reach.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

Here we go again...

You can say what you want about F-35 being better than it's critics say, being stealthy (clearly, given the Iran war, it's hard to hit) or being worth it. These things are at least debatable. But if an official says it's cheaper than a JAS 39, I think yeah, bribes. Cheap is not one of the selling points of the F-35.

 

[Marcel]

LibreOffice and and OpenOffice are close, but usually a generation or two behind MS Office on some key features. I think with a little funding from EU (and other) governments they could quickly catch up and surpass the competition, if you will. I used it in the past for desktop publishing and writing, but had to go back to MS. i would love to transition back to Linux 100% personally. I hate SAAS, I hate being spied on and served ads, and not being able to own what you buy, don't want to use the cloud at all and MS, Adobe etc. like most of the US big tech firms, is a great big trap in so many ways.

It's bad enough for individuals, but it's a real problem for European governments to be so dependent on this software. To have some degree of autonomy they need to develop the alternative, and I don't think it's out of reach.

I'm not sure what Libreoffice lacks that the average user would need. My opinion of MSOffice is that it's a bloated piece of sh!t, but I must admit I don't use any offcice package. I'ma diehard Linux user and I use (neo)vim for almost everything, even presentations. And for converting to docx, pdf and the like, we always have pandoc.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

I'm not sure what Libreoffice lacks that the average user would need. My opinion of MSOffice is that it's a bloated piece of sh!t, but I must admit I don't use any offcice package. I'ma diehard Linux user and I use (neo)vim for almost everything, even presentations. And for converting to docx, pdf and the like, we always have pandoc.

I'm a Linux fan and as i said, have used LibreOffice but ran into some limitations which required going back to the Devil. I have several friends who are Linux systems administrators and I certainly support the project, I just think it could use some support. Now is a good time for that due to unfortunate current events. Maybe some good can come out of it.

 

[GTX]

You can say what you want about F-35 being better than it's critics say, being stealthy (clearly, given the Iran war, it's hard to hit) or being worth it. These things are at least debatable. But if an official says it's cheaper than a JAS 39, I think yeah, bribes. Cheap is not one of the selling points of the F-35.

Volume gives benefits and in that regard to date there are in excess of 1325 F-35s produced vs ~300 Gripens (all versions - when talking about the E/F model it is less than 20). Very simple reason why the F-35 wins on price.

 

[MiTasol]

I have been happily running Linux and opensource software as my main OS for the last 17 years. In the beginning it was a big step, you needed quite a bit of technical knowledge to run Linux back in the day, but nowadays I dare to say that many Linux distros are more user friendly than Windows. They all come pre installed with the software you need, including Libre Office, the current alternative for MS Office.

And most Linux Office equivalents are able to read and write MS file format. I am 82 and changed to Linux recently and I found the transition easier than going from Win7 to Win10.

The biggest benefits of Linux are you do not need to worry about MS formatting all your hard drives (which MS have done to some users with both Win10 and Win11), do not need to have to go thru all the hoops and hurdles like on Win11, and you are not forced to have AI on your computer.

 

[Steamed_Banana]

Volume gives benefits and in that regard to date there are in excess of 1325 F-35s produced vs ~300 Gripens (all versions - when talking about the E/F model it is less than 20). Very simple reason why the F-35 wins on price.

Yeah sorry don't buy it, especially when talking about a small European country like Norway.

 

[GTX]

Yeah sorry don't buy it, especially when talking about a small European country like Norway.

So you don't understand that large numbers result in lower prices per unit? You haven't heard of economies of scale?

Let me try to explain how this works - and I speak to you as someone who was managing a team producing parts for platforms such as the F-35. When one quotes (and gets subsequent orders) on items it is typical to be asked for and to deliver price reductions per part as the order quantities go up. this is possible because of a number of things ranging from your input prices going down through the ability to negotiate better prices (a large order is valuable because it gives certainty) through to some fixed costs being amortised over a larger number of items through to simple efficiencies gained through doing something many times over. This is all real and should be familiar to anyone in industry.

Now turning to the case of the F-35 vs the Saab Gripen, let's look at the numbers:

• F-35: 1325+ produced to date with another 2000+ planned to be produced.
• Saab Gripen E/F (not doing earlier versions since they are out of production): ~20 delivered to date with another 85 in production/on order

The F-35 is being produced at ~150/yr. Thus just a single year's production will dwarf the total Gripen E/F demand. And if comparing yearly production numbers for both types it gets even more prominent.

As for your comment about Norway, I am not sure what you are trying to get at. Norway doesn't produce either type though it does produce parts for the F-35 so it does get an economic benefit there. Moreover, for the F-35 order (52 jets), they aren't produced in isolation for Norway. Rather the production lines are producing aircraft for all customers concurrently. Therefore it is meaningless to talk about countries individually.

 

[GTX]

BTW, I actually quite like the Gripen as a platform. I am just trying to inject some reality to the discussion and to counter some of the BS being put out about the type.

That said, turning to some fantasy for a moment, here is something I recently collaborated upon:

United Grief

United Grief

beyondthesprues.com

 

[Lucky13]

So far, one F-35 downed, Gripen none....(just yanking your chain)