If it was made by the BBC the pilots would be women and the commanders gay while Park would be from a Mauri tribe, the conflict would be ended by a party arranged with the LW by the LBGTIQ community.
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If it was made by the BBC the pilots would be women and the commanders gay while Park would be from a Mauri tribe, the conflict would be ended by a party arranged with the LW by the LBGTIQ community.Don't forget the love story too...
Gotta go full blown Hollywood with this.
If it was made by the BBC the pilots would be women and the commanders gay while Park would be from a Mauri tribe, the conflict would be ended by a party arranged with the LW by the LBGTIQ community.
I wasn't actually joking Adler, the BBC have a policy of quotas in their drama casts, this leads to all sorts of ridiculous and completely implausible story lines.Could be HBO too.
I wasn't actually joking Adler, the BBC have a policy of quotas in their drama casts, this leads to all sorts of ridiculous and completely implausible story lines.
That's how I have read it. However the losses must be seen in the context of production. British production was well over German estimates of it while German production was well below British estimates. Both sides believed that Germany was producing most while the reverse was actually the truth. Additionally the German front line bombers were not changed throughout the war apart from a few He 177s while the British had three heavy bombers nearing production.the "old" figures for the BoB losses were: for RAF 367 bombers, 1140 fighters and 96 other operational types = 1603 altogether and 1733 all operational types for LW. So losses were fairly close each other.
Sorry I asked.
NOAre you talking about the Israeli F-15 that lost a wing, but returned?
We know thatAlso, getting hit by a SAM does not fall under the scope of air-to-air kill ratio.
So, when was an F-15 (air superiority, not mud hen) hit by a missile, outside the 1990 incident in Alaska?NO
We know that
The F6F Hellcat did have a 19 : 1 kill ratio. It was the best piston fighter kill ratio of all times. The next best was down around 12 : 1. That was the Corsair.
There is a massive problem with discussing claims that rarely gets mentioned. Consider the following breakdown of losses (figures for illustrative purposes only):
Definitely lost in air combat: 40%
Definitely lost to non-air-combat reasons: 30%
Lost to unknown causes: 30%
Now consider two air-forces, A and B.
A says:
Losses in air combat = 40% + 30% = 70%
Losses to non-air-combat reasons = 30%
B says:
Losses in air combat = 40%
Losses to non-air-combat reasons = 30% + 30% = 60%
Now for air-force A read 'RAF', and for air-force B read 'Luftwaffe' or 'USAAF' or 'USN'. The truth of this is simply beyond dispute, as a glance at the figures will confirm. In the second half of 1941 the RAF lost over 400 fighters in operations over France, of which about 140 were attributed to flak or non-combat reasons. In the same period JG2 and JG26 lost 235 fighters - but allegedly only 103 in air combat. So, to put it simply, either the Spitfire was vastly more reliable than the Bf109, or there was something seriously wrong with the way these figures were calculated. For the Hellcat you have 815 losses, but allegedly only 245 in air combat, and for the P38 1752 losses but only 451 in air combat. I believe the estimable Hop pointed out that according to German records their bombers allegedly suffered a higher accident-rate in daylight operations than during the night, which makes absolutely no sense.
Another point regarding alleged German losses is that we know from other sources that many lost aircraft never found their way into the official lists. Besides statistical analysis we have Ultra intercepts, other German records (eg diaries) and the reports made by the RAF's crash-investigation teams, though unfortunately these teams only began operation in October 1940 when the BoB was winding down. I find it difficult to understand the reasoning that a signal from a Luftwaffe unit saying "We lost 6 aircraft today" is less accurate than figures compiled by some pen-pusher in Berlin claiming only 2 were lost. For what it's worth, my estimate is that the Luftwaffe lost 500-550 Bf109's shot down by RAF fighters during the BoB, while destroying about 450-500 Spitfires and Hurricanes in return.
As far as I know, neverSo, when was an F-15 (air superiority, not mud hen) hit by a missile, outside the 1990 incident in Alaska?
Just posted a reply on a similar Pacific Theater thread:
The FM-2 "Wilder Wildcat" probably retains the world record for piston fighters at 32-1. And unlike most other VFs, I'm inclined to accept the FM record almost at face value because of the nature of its mission. Air defense of CVE task groups very seldom generated the multi-multi bogey furballs common to Hellcats and Corsairs with their inevitably high claiming errors. Look at the FM's breakdown and it's a high % of "bomber" (bmber-attack) types which GENERALLY were easier to track than fighters.
Not upset at all, Chris, and in case you haven't been tracking it, I haven't been in a LONG time. Things are what they are; no point is getting upset about it.
I thought we had some idea of the real losses in the BOB. To see otherwise in graphic detail merely adds to the frustration of trying to find our the number of planes shot down. Been chasing that one for a long time, as you know.
But, if we can't agree on the number of losses during a several-month period by type, we'll probably never arrive at general agreement on losses for the war. I figured that but hope otherwise. To me, we SHOULD know the losses by type and the argument should be lost to what? Combat, operational, unknown, etc. Not how many ran into grief on the missions. That should not be hard to get from somewhere ... but it is.
Cheers.