Kill ratios.....

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Lucky13, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    We all know that Erich Hartmann has the most air to air kills of all time, right? But, does that still mean that was the best ever fighter pilot? Would the German top aces still be at the top if you look at their kill ratios with the amount of missions that they flew, or would the list be different with a USAAF, RAF or a VVS ace at the top?
     
  2. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Well here is some:

    Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.
    Missions per Kill: 2.34:1
    Kill Ratio: 25:1

    Gerhard Barkhorn 1104 missions, 301 kills, shot down 9 times.
    Missions per kill: 3.66:1
    Kill Ratio: 33:1

    Günther Rall 621 missions, 275 kills, shot down 8 times.
    Missions per kill: 2.25:1
    Kill Ratio: 34:1

    Otto "Bruno" Kittel 583 missions, 267 kills, shot down 1 time.
    Missions per kill: 2.18:1
    Kill Ratio: 267:1

    Walter "Nowi" Nowotny 442 missions, 258 kills, shot down 2 times.
    Missions per kill: 1.71:1
    Kill Ratio: 129:1

    Wilhelm "Willi" Batz 445 missions, 234 kills, shot down 4 times.
    Missions per kill: 1.9:1
    Kill Ratio: 59:1

    Hermann Graf 830 missions, 212 kills, shot down 1 time.
    Missions per kill: 3.9:1
    Kill Ratio: 212:1

    Helmut Lipfert 700 missions, 203 Kills.
    Missions per kill: 3.44:1
    Kill Ratio: 203:1

    Alfred Grislawski 800 missions, 133 kills, shot down 4 times.
    Missions per kill: 6.01:1
    Kill Ratio: 33:1

    Adolf "Dolfo" Galland 705 missions, 104 kills, shot down 4 times.
    Missions per kill: 6.77:1
    Kill Ratio: 26:1

    Josef "Pips" Priller 1307 missions, 101 kills.
    Missions per kill: 12.94:1
    Kill Ratio: 101:1

    Werner "Vati" Mölders 330 missions, 101 kills, shot down 1 time.
    Missions per kill: 3.26:1
    Kill Ratio: 101:1

    For more info on many of the German aces check out:

    Kacha`s Luftwaffe Page
     
  3. Konigstiger205

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  4. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Cheers Adler, much appreciated! WOW! That is some kill ratios....!
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Check out the site, it has some good info.
     
  6. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    So Kittel got the highest.
     
  7. AV8

    AV8 New Member

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    I notice everyone who posts about kill ratios posts the German or Japanese ratios but seems to never post the UK or USA or Soviet kill ratios.

    In Adler's post above, he states the German ratios quite well. They match the ratios I've seen on the web elsewhere but have never verified myself.

    But what were the American, British, and Soviet top kill ratios?

    Perhaps the answer lies in the difficulty in getting the numbers. I know I have trouble finding them myself, and that is why I have not questioned the kill ratios posted for the Germans ... I simply don't have the data.
     
  8. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Exactly I do not have the numbers for US/UK/and Russia.
     
  9. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Isn't strange that there is such a problem finding the kill ratios of allied aces? I thought that they'd be as widely spread as for Luftwaffe aces....
     
  10. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    acepilots.com has the kills of a LOT of Allied pilots. Unfortunately it doesn't have the ratios, or how many times the pilots got shot down. Still, maybe it will do some good.

    Acepilots.com - WW2 and aviation history
     
  11. AV8

    AV8 New Member

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    Hey Adler,

    I have an Excel spreadsheet with all aerial victories from the first up thropugh about 1994 or so. If you are interested in a copy, PM me and I'll send you a copy on CD.

    WAY too big to email ...

    Unfortunately, it does NOT list the missions flown to achieve the victories ... Bummer but what can you do?
     
  12. Mangrove

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  13. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    He could expect a kill everytime he went up!


    I bet that one day when he didn't get one, was a strange day for him.
     
  14. Cub Driver

    Cub Driver New Member

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    Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.

    Was there ever a better argument for strafing a parachutist in his shrouds? If the first guy who shot Hartmann's plane down had stuck around to kill the pilot, he would have potentially spared the lives or freedom of several hundred Allied pilots.

    Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

    Now available: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
     
  15. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    No...
     
  16. Seawitch

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    Hi Cub driver
    You was thinking like me! An ability to survive being shot down or just quick to dump his plane?
    What ever, he kept coming back.
     
  17. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Alder -

    Are you counting total missions flown or total missions with combat action flown, or what the USN would define as total flights versus combat sorties?

    Reason I ask is that I recall seeing a much higher mission number for Hartmann, something in excess of 1400 as I recall. Would that be his total flights and the 825 his combat sorties?

    And is this the same for the others on your list?

    Thanks!

    Rich
     
  18. mad_max

    mad_max Member

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    To me a more interesting question is how many did the aces shoot down before the
    first time they got shot down and/or how many kills on average per time shot down.

    It might mean beans, but more interesting to me.
     
  19. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I get my info from the site above. I believe it is combat missions but not sure.

    I believe Erich helped on that site. He might have more info on that.
     
  20. Kurfürst

    Kurfürst Banned

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    Small correction, Erich Hartmann was never shot down by an enemy aircraft. He forced down 14 times, several times because his point-blank firing tactic resulted in debris from enemy plane damaging his own airplane. I presume the others were technical malfunctions, running out of fuel, collisions etc.
     
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