Kill ratios.....

[Lucky13]

We all know that Erich Hartmann has the most air to air kills of all time, right? But, does that still mean that was the best ever fighter pilot? Would the German top aces still be at the top if you look at their kill ratios with the amount of missions that they flew, or would the list be different with a USAAF, RAF or a VVS ace at the top?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well here is some:

Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.
Missions per Kill: 2.34:1
Kill Ratio: 25:1

Gerhard Barkhorn 1104 missions, 301 kills, shot down 9 times.
Missions per kill: 3.66:1
Kill Ratio: 33:1

Günther Rall 621 missions, 275 kills, shot down 8 times.
Missions per kill: 2.25:1
Kill Ratio: 34:1

Otto "Bruno" Kittel 583 missions, 267 kills, shot down 1 time.
Missions per kill: 2.18:1
Kill Ratio: 267:1

Walter "Nowi" Nowotny 442 missions, 258 kills, shot down 2 times.
Missions per kill: 1.71:1
Kill Ratio: 129:1

Wilhelm "Willi" Batz 445 missions, 234 kills, shot down 4 times.
Missions per kill: 1.9:1
Kill Ratio: 59:1

Hermann Graf 830 missions, 212 kills, shot down 1 time.
Missions per kill: 3.9:1
Kill Ratio: 212:1

Helmut Lipfert 700 missions, 203 Kills.
Missions per kill: 3.44:1
Kill Ratio: 203:1

Alfred Grislawski 800 missions, 133 kills, shot down 4 times.
Missions per kill: 6.01:1
Kill Ratio: 33:1

Adolf "Dolfo" Galland 705 missions, 104 kills, shot down 4 times.
Missions per kill: 6.77:1
Kill Ratio: 26:1

Josef "Pips" Priller 1307 missions, 101 kills.
Missions per kill: 12.94:1
Kill Ratio: 101:1

Werner "Vati" Mölders 330 missions, 101 kills, shot down 1 time.
Missions per kill: 3.26:1
Kill Ratio: 101:1

For more info on many of the German aces check out:

Kacha`s Luftwaffe Page

 

[Konigstiger205]

I remember when I was checking aces on wikipedia and there was a list with all aces of WW2....and half of the list or even more was only german pilots...here is the link List of World War II air aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lucky13]

Cheers Adler, much appreciated! WOW! That is some kill ratios....!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Check out the site, it has some good info.

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

So Kittel got the highest.

 

[AV8]

I notice everyone who posts about kill ratios posts the German or Japanese ratios but seems to never post the UK or USA or Soviet kill ratios.

In Adler's post above, he states the German ratios quite well. They match the ratios I've seen on the web elsewhere but have never verified myself.

But what were the American, British, and Soviet top kill ratios?

Perhaps the answer lies in the difficulty in getting the numbers. I know I have trouble finding them myself, and that is why I have not questioned the kill ratios posted for the Germans ... I simply don't have the data.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I notice everyone who posts about kill ratios posts the German or Japanese ratios but seems to never post the UK or USA or Soviet kill ratios.[/quotes]

Thats because he speciffically asked for the German ratios.

[quote="AV8"}Perhaps the answer lies in the difficulty in getting the numbers. I know I have trouble finding them myself, and that is why I have not questioned the kill ratios posted for the Germans ... I simply don't have the data.

Exactly I do not have the numbers for US/UK/and Russia.

 

[Lucky13]

Isn't strange that there is such a problem finding the kill ratios of allied aces? I thought that they'd be as widely spread as for Luftwaffe aces....

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

acepilots.com has the kills of a LOT of Allied pilots. Unfortunately it doesn't have the ratios, or how many times the pilots got shot down. Still, maybe it will do some good.

Acepilots.com - WW2 and aviation history

 

[AV8]

Hey Adler,

I have an Excel spreadsheet with all aerial victories from the first up thropugh about 1994 or so. If you are interested in a copy, PM me and I'll send you a copy on CD.

WAY too big to email ...

Unfortunately, it does NOT list the missions flown to achieve the victories ... Bummer but what can you do?

 

[Mangrove]

Günther Scheel, 70 mission and 71 kills. 0.98:1.

Aces of the Luftwaffe - Günther Scheel

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

He could expect a kill everytime he went up!


I bet that one day when he didn't get one, was a strange day for him.

 

[Cub Driver]

Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.

Was there ever a better argument for strafing a parachutist in his shrouds? If the first guy who shot Hartmann's plane down had stuck around to kill the pilot, he would have potentially spared the lives or freedom of several hundred Allied pilots.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Now available: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.

Was there ever a better argument for strafing a parachutist in his shrouds?

No...

 

[Seawitch]

Hi Cub driver
You was thinking like me! An ability to survive being shot down or just quick to dump his plane?
What ever, he kept coming back.

 

[R Leonard]

Alder -

Are you counting total missions flown or total missions with combat action flown, or what the USN would define as total flights versus combat sorties?

Reason I ask is that I recall seeing a much higher mission number for Hartmann, something in excess of 1400 as I recall. Would that be his total flights and the 825 his combat sorties?

And is this the same for the others on your list?

Thanks!

Rich

 

[mad_max]

To me a more interesting question is how many did the aces shoot down before the
first time they got shot down and/or how many kills on average per time shot down.

It might mean beans, but more interesting to me.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Alder -

Are you counting total missions flown or total missions with combat action flown, or what the USN would define as total flights versus combat sorties?

Reason I ask is that I recall seeing a much higher mission number for Hartmann, something in excess of 1400 as I recall. Would that be his total flights and the 825 his combat sorties?

And is this the same for the others on your list?

Thanks!

Rich

I get my info from the site above. I believe it is combat missions but not sure.

I believe Erich helped on that site. He might have more info on that.

 

[Kurfürst]

Erich Hartmann 825 missions, 352 kills, shot down 14 times.

Was there ever a better argument for strafing a parachutist in his shrouds? If the first guy who shot Hartmann's plane down had stuck around to kill the pilot, he would have potentially spared the lives or freedom of several hundred Allied pilots.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Now available: Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942

Small correction, Erich Hartmann was never shot down by an enemy aircraft. He forced down 14 times, several times because his point-blank firing tactic resulted in debris from enemy plane damaging his own airplane. I presume the others were technical malfunctions, running out of fuel, collisions etc.