'Langnasen Dora' Fw 190D-9's
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Aaron Brooks Wolters
Brigadier General
Nice going Jan!
I want one of these but will have to wait a while.
I want one of these but will have to wait a while.Based on the nearest few airframes (210917, 210968 and 210972) and what was typical for Fw Cottbus, this is what I think...
My personal colours for these are:
RLM76 (control surfaces) : Lifecolor UA509 (RLM76)
RLM76 (green-blue) : Lifecolor UA139 (FS34583)
RLM82 (bright green) : 80% Lifecolor UA132 (RLM83/FS34128) + 20% Lifecolur UA511 (RLM82)
RLM83 (dark green) : 50% Lifecolur UA511 (RLM82) + 50% Lifecolor UA001 (FS34079)
Of course those last two are REALLY temperamental - for this period, those are the mixtures I'd be starting at. However there was a LOT of variation in those colours (like that RLM83 at times, could just as easily be FS34079 or FS34083), not to mention that come ppl interpret them differently - eg, Crandall seems to consistently have a darker colour match than I. Still, as I think I have said before, tonal difference is more important than exact colour as we're dealing with primarily B&W source photos!
But yeah, thats my take
D
My personal colours for these are:
RLM76 (control surfaces) : Lifecolor UA509 (RLM76)
RLM76 (green-blue) : Lifecolor UA139 (FS34583)
RLM82 (bright green) : 80% Lifecolor UA132 (RLM83/FS34128) + 20% Lifecolur UA511 (RLM82)
RLM83 (dark green) : 50% Lifecolur UA511 (RLM82) + 50% Lifecolor UA001 (FS34079)
Of course those last two are REALLY temperamental - for this period, those are the mixtures I'd be starting at. However there was a LOT of variation in those colours (like that RLM83 at times, could just as easily be FS34079 or FS34083), not to mention that come ppl interpret them differently - eg, Crandall seems to consistently have a darker colour match than I. Still, as I think I have said before, tonal difference is more important than exact colour as we're dealing with primarily B&W source photos!
But yeah, thats my take
D
And now that I have drawn that and read more, Im not 100% convinced. Why?? Well there are a/c later in the same block (like 210982 I./JG26 "White 13" and 210972 II./JG26 "Black 1+-") that have almost identical schemes, yet they're using the earlier, 'blue' RLM76 and the wing lower surfaces are the W1 scheme.... So:
In the case of the better documented "White 13", there appears to be some light mottling of RLM82 on the tail, while some extra 82/83 has been mottled further down on the fuselage - 82 beneath the 83 and 83 beneath 82... But without a better ref, I have left the picture pretty generic for the time....
D
In the case of the better documented "White 13", there appears to be some light mottling of RLM82 on the tail, while some extra 82/83 has been mottled further down on the fuselage - 82 beneath the 83 and 83 beneath 82... But without a better ref, I have left the picture pretty generic for the time....
D
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Lucky13
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*Speechless* 
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- #26
Lucky13
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Here's the promised pics...
D-9 from 5./JG301, Wk. Nr. 50408....
D-9 from IV./JG26, WK. Nr. 210003....
D-9 from Stab./JG4, Wk. Nr. 600150....
D-9 from Stab./JG6, Wk. Nr. 211164.... I take it that the landing gear is one of those that's been changed in field, or?
D-9 from 7./JG26, Wk. Nr. 500647.... Rather unique tis one, or?
Here you see the JV44 decal sheet from E/E. Top one is the new reprinted one, the bottom is the older.
Colours have been sort of swapped around as you notice....
D-9 from 5./JG301, Wk. Nr. 50408....
D-9 from IV./JG26, WK. Nr. 210003....
D-9 from Stab./JG4, Wk. Nr. 600150....
D-9 from Stab./JG6, Wk. Nr. 211164.... I take it that the landing gear is one of those that's been changed in field, or?
D-9 from 7./JG26, Wk. Nr. 500647.... Rather unique tis one, or?
Here you see the JV44 decal sheet from E/E. Top one is the new reprinted one, the bottom is the older.
Colours have been sort of swapped around as you notice....
Actually, while we're here debating Dora's schemes, does anyone have 'additional' info on the scheme worn by D-9 601088 "Black <1+~"?
EE suggests its one of the growing number of known RLM76/75/74 D-9's, where as Japo suggests RLM76/81/82/83. EE also seems content with a Black Fuselage Balkenkruez on RLM76, where as Japo favours a White Balkenkreuz on a background spraying of RLM81 or 83. Personally, I'm leaning towards Japo (as i tend to) as I can definitely see a 'green' colour in the colour-corrected 1960's photos (thanks to the ppl who put the colour correction cards against the airframe when those photos were taken!!!) and the Japo suggestion of what I would describe as 'pigment bleach' is very valid (colours change A LOT when exposed to other solvents and colours, the elements, time, etc). However, I do agree with the EE conclusions on other D-9's that they have identified as 76/75/74 coloured...
Alas, this ALWAYS seems to happen to me! The a/c I choose to model can never be agreed upon by both Japo and EE - where is Japo 3rd Edition, swopping in to save the day?!?!
Thoughts?
EE suggests its one of the growing number of known RLM76/75/74 D-9's, where as Japo suggests RLM76/81/82/83. EE also seems content with a Black Fuselage Balkenkruez on RLM76, where as Japo favours a White Balkenkreuz on a background spraying of RLM81 or 83. Personally, I'm leaning towards Japo (as i tend to) as I can definitely see a 'green' colour in the colour-corrected 1960's photos (thanks to the ppl who put the colour correction cards against the airframe when those photos were taken!!!) and the Japo suggestion of what I would describe as 'pigment bleach' is very valid (colours change A LOT when exposed to other solvents and colours, the elements, time, etc). However, I do agree with the EE conclusions on other D-9's that they have identified as 76/75/74 coloured...
Alas, this ALWAYS seems to happen to me! The a/c I choose to model can never be agreed upon by both Japo and EE - where is Japo 3rd Edition, swopping in to save the day?!?!
Thoughts?
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- #28
Lucky13
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As with the Clemens Schmoll's (6./JG301) and his Dora, Red 13, which have Wk. Nr. 210913, would it be safe to guess that she looked like Wk. Nr. 211164, except for the landing gear doors, which I suspect is rather unique to her, or?
Forward wing: RLM 83
Fuselage and centre: RLM 76
Ailerons: RLM 76
Rest of the wing: Aluminium
Forward wing: RLM 83
Fuselage and centre: RLM 76
Ailerons: RLM 76
Rest of the wing: Aluminium
Well, my thoughts on 211164 was that the front half and inner 1/3 of the whole lower wing was RLM75 - upper wings were RLM75/83 - fuselage was RLM83 and small quantities of either RLM75 or RLM82 (the power egg was possibly RLM83 over RLM81). Tail was mottled in RLM81... There was also a diagonal edge of a 'grey' color across the sides of the rear fuselage, beginning at the rear edge of the wing root fairing to the front edge of the horizontal tail plane; this shape supposed shows up on late A-series airframes as well (some suggest it is a sign that the fuselage was originally constructed for an A-8, but was altered to D-9 standard on the production line??).
As for the gear doors, you are correct - they're in RLM76, suggesting they were replaced whenever it was that the a/c was repaired; 211164 shows patches of 'light grey' on the left wing root, along small sections of the fuselage, gear doors and tail fin.
BUT my thoughts on lower wings are they can be different from airframe to airframe - photo's exist of wing sets delivered from subcontractors in a variety of scheme's - upper wing and fuselage colours and patterns are more predictable however.
As for the gear doors, you are correct - they're in RLM76, suggesting they were replaced whenever it was that the a/c was repaired; 211164 shows patches of 'light grey' on the left wing root, along small sections of the fuselage, gear doors and tail fin.
BUT my thoughts on lower wings are they can be different from airframe to airframe - photo's exist of wing sets delivered from subcontractors in a variety of scheme's - upper wing and fuselage colours and patterns are more predictable however.
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- #30
Lucky13
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Seeing that E/E have this set for the '190, would it be safe to use those red 1's and 3's for this 'Red 13', or would they be too big?
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- #32
Lucky13
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Exactly mate....you think so, aye?
Unfortunately, I don't....
Unfortunately, I don't....
Hmmmm, PM me your thoughts on what the '13' should look like; having been looking quite hard at JG 301 myself, you appear to have two options for the type of '3' you'd like. If you get stuck, I'll print you out a pair (or two) of 'red 13' decals on the next run of stuff I print and drop them in the post - if you want....
D
D
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- #34
Lucky13
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Think that I'll do Clemens Schmoll's (6./JG301) and his Dora, Red 13, Wk. Nr. 210913, with my JV44 Dora in 1/32.
That JG26 'White 13' is bl**dy tempting, but so are those from JG54! Maybe need to get another two Doras! 
That JG26 'White 13' is bl**dy tempting, but so are those from JG54! Maybe need to get another two Doras!
Maybe something like this:
The left hand side is the style I feel you'd likely see on a III./JG 301 a/c; although the '3' could still use some work in the middle to be more like the DML/Dragon Ta 152H style, but generally, its close... Maybe you should do a '13' from all Jagdgeschwadern who operated noteworthy numbers of the D-9???
The left hand side is the style I feel you'd likely see on a III./JG 301 a/c; although the '3' could still use some work in the middle to be more like the DML/Dragon Ta 152H style, but generally, its close... Maybe you should do a '13' from all Jagdgeschwadern who operated noteworthy numbers of the D-9???
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- #37
Lucky13
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Nice work Zaggy!
Besides these, that you posted earlier? What is it, 14? Not counting the JV44's and Clemen's bird....
D-9 210982 White 13 1./JG26
D-9 500093 Yellow 13 3./JG26
D-9 601305 Black 13 6./JG26
D-9 210063 Red 13 12./JG54
D-9 210176 White 13 5./JG26
D-9 210241 Red 13 6./JG301
D-9 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301
D-9 210935 Blue 13 4./JG26
D-9 211068 Black 13 6./JG6
D-9 211095 Black 13 10./JG54
D-9 400208 Brown 13 7./JG26
D-9 400209 Blue 13 8./JG26
D-9 400241 White 13 1./JG26
D-9 600174 White 13 1./JG26
Besides these, that you posted earlier? What is it, 14?
Not counting the JV44's and Clemen's bird....D-9 210982 White 13 1./JG26
D-9 500093 Yellow 13 3./JG26
D-9 601305 Black 13 6./JG26
D-9 210063 Red 13 12./JG54
D-9 210176 White 13 5./JG26
D-9 210241 Red 13 6./JG301
D-9 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301
D-9 210935 Blue 13 4./JG26
D-9 211068 Black 13 6./JG6
D-9 211095 Black 13 10./JG54
D-9 400208 Brown 13 7./JG26
D-9 400209 Blue 13 8./JG26
D-9 400241 White 13 1./JG26
D-9 600174 White 13 1./JG26
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- #39
Lucky13
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With the Wk. Nr. 210913, does it have a 3, or a 5 piece gun cowling, maybe worth swapping the radiator cowling and cockpit as well, to either Aires or Eagle Editions, which ever is best..
