'Langnasen Dora' Fw 190D-9's

[Lucky13]

As you know, I bought two Hasegawa 1/32 D-9 last week. One is to be the 'Red 13' from the 'Galland Circus', the other I don't know yet, there's decals for a 'White 13' from JG26 though, made by E/E, we'll see!
At the same time, I'll try to kickstart my other D-9, Clemens Schmoll's 'Red 13' from 6/JG301, with Wnr. 210913, it's from the Me/ Fw Group Build....
Also, there's fourth D-9, a 'late' model of the type, see if I can find another '13' for her, I'm sure there's something interesting out there!

(On a sidenote, also dug out my Bf 110G-2, to dust off.....)

 

[Airframes]

Got some work ahead of you there old chap !

 

[Zaggy]

PLENTY of '13' Tac-Coded D-9's out there... Want a List?

 

[Lucky13]

Please do mate! I'll add it to my own '13-list'!

 

[Wayne Little]

new you would want to compare notes Jan....

 

[Lucky13]

Deffo mate! Can never get too many Dora-9 '13's....

 

[Zaggy]

Hmmm, not as many as I thought actually:

Type Werk Tactical Unit Source Notes
A-5 410226 Black 13 2./JG11 SuperScale 48-887 Black 13 edged in Red
D-9 210982 White 13 1./JG26 Eagle EC#48-126 Nice looking Dora!
D-9 213240 Red 13 JV44 Eagle EC#48-14
Sky Decals 48-057
D-9 500093 Yellow 13 3./JG26 Japo II p.257
D-9 601305 Black 13 6./JG26 Japo II p.377

Other 13's

D-9 210063 Red 13 12./JG54 Japo I
D-9 210176 White 13 5./JG26 Japo I
D-9 210241 Red 13 6./JG301 Japo I
D-9 210913 Red 13 6./JG301 Japo I
D-9 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301 Japo I
D-9 210935 Blue 13 4./JG26 Japo I
D-9 211068 Black 13 6./JG6 Japo I
D-9 211095 Black 13 10./JG54 Japo I
D-9 400208 Brown 13 7./JG26 Japo II
D-9 400209 Blue 13 8./JG26 Japo II
D-9 400241 White 13 1./JG26 Japo II
D-9 600174 White 13 1./JG26 Japo II

Enjoy I havent looked through EE or the other stuff here, but this is a good start!


D

 

[Lucky13]

D***mn! Seems like I need to get more Dora's!
Need to go back and see which of the JG26 'White 13' has on their decal sheet, aaah... see it there EC#48-126!
What does those from JG54 (210063 Red 13 12./JG54, 211095 Black 13 10./JG54) and JG301 (210241 Red 13 6./JG301, 210913 Red 13 6./JG301, 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301) look like, any pics?

Thanks mate, appreciated!

 

[Crimea_River]

None in Urbanke's book. 211095 was flown by Erich Lange, shot down by Tempestsof 274 Sq. Feb 24/45. 210063 flown by Hans Hegener, hit by friendly flak Nov 7/44.

 

[Zaggy]

The numbers in the second brace, labelled Other 13's i do not have confirmatory images of yet - though that just means they're not in Japo; EE or one of the many other Dora books may be able to sort that out. But yeah, the 1./JG26 Dora on Eagle EC#48-126 (Dora Vol. Two EagleCals) is a just a nice, clean RLM82/83 Dora. I have that sheet in fact and plan to do 500647 "Brown 4", 210982 "White 13" and 836016 "Black <<" at some point! Its one of the best EC sheets I have!

 

[Wayne Little]

Sadly there are too few Dora '13' photo's...

 

[Lucky13]

Sooo....D-9 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301, could, possibly, by chance, maybe theoretically, look something like this then?

 

[Wayne Little]

Jan 210919 more likely 82/83/76 scheme.

 

[vajled]

Watching and enjoying this build
Roman

 

[Zaggy]

Yeah, what Wayne said... Check out the scheme's applied to Werk Nummern in the same block (the closer the better) - markings wise, it probably wouldnt be too different! May have had a red II. Gruppe Bar across the Rumpfband as well!

 

[Zaggy]

I'll have a flick through the many other Dora books here too... but the 4 listed cover most 'styles' of Dora's, from the JV44 Red 13, to the more subtle look...

 

[Zaggy]

Yeah, looked through another half dozen books, and can find nothing new; thus the list stands:

Type Werk Tactical Unit Source Notes
D-9 210982 White 13 1./JG26 Eagle EC#48-126 - EE II p.360 : Nice looking Dora!
D-9 213240 Red 13 JV44 Eagle EC#48-14 Sky Decals 48-057 - EE II p.82 EE DotGS
D-9 500093 Yellow 13 3./JG26 - Japo II p.257 EE I p.71
D-9 601305 Black 13 6./JG26 - Japo II p.377

Other 13's
D-9 210063 Red 13 12./JG54 Japo I EE II
D-9 210176 White 13 5./JG26 Japo I EE II
D-9 210241 Red 13 6./JG301 Japo I EE II
D-9 210913 Red 13 6./JG301 Japo I EE II
D-9 210919 Yellow 13 7./JG301 Japo I EE II
D-9 210935 Blue 13 4./JG26 Japo I EE II
D-9 211068 Black 13 6./JG6 Japo I EE II
D-9 211095 Black 13 10./JG54 Japo I EE II
D-9 400208 Brown 13 7./JG26 Japo II EE II
D-9 400209 Blue 13 8./JG26 Japo II EE II
D-9 400241 White 13 1./JG26 Japo II EE II
D-9 600174 White 13 1./JG26 Japo II EE II

Of the 'others' that I've no photo's of, I would draw your attention to 210241, the next a/c to the JV44 "Red 13" - likely it would sport a VERY similiar camoflage. For me tho, my 'to do' list includes all 5 JV44 Dora's - thus 210240 "Red 13" will be done and 210982 "White 13" from 1./JG26, because it just looks 'right'. Those are the only "13's" I have any intent of doing.

The next Dora however, will probably be either 601088 "Black <1+~" (in its PROPER camo, not the modern day museum camo) in the form on Tamiya D-9 + Verlinden and etc or more likely an Eduard D-11 220017 "White <<-".

 

[Lucky13]

One of the 1/32 Doras if definitely set aside for the JV44 Red 13, the other is to be decided as well as the 'late' Dora in 1/48....

 

[Lucky13]

Well,

Is there a way to determine camouflage and style of numerals from the same unit?
I imagine that all Fw 190's, in this case the Doras weren't all built by Focke Wulf, right, were they numbered at the unit, or?
Can you use the Wk. Nr. to decide how they were camouflaged etc.?

As in this case, I have the 'late' D-9, Yellow 15 from II./JG301 with Wk. Nr. 500666 (where does the 'late' Dora's start btw?), with my Eduard kit, could one assume that Yellow 13 with Wk. Nr. 210919 but from 7./JG301, had the same style in numerals as this Yellow 15?
Also, when it come to the camouflage etc., should one go with Black 1, but from IV./JG26, with Wk. Nr. 210003 which is closer in series?

I have also noted, with these Eduard kits, that there are four different underwing styles of the....eeermmm...camouflage, how do you get the right one?

Will put some pics up tomorrow, to show you what I mean..

 

[Zaggy]

Is there a way to determine camouflage and style of numerals from the same unit?

Camoflage is generally determined by the manufacturer and block - Units tends to use the same style of numbering (especially within a Staffel), but of course, there are always exceptions! Some units, as the war drag on, also added the a/c camouflage.

I imagine that all Fw 190's, in this case the Doras weren't all built by Focke Wulf, right, were they numbered at the unit, or?
Can you use the Wk. Nr. to decide how they were camouflaged etc.?

Correct - you have four major manufacturer, all producing distinct blocks; and with those blocks were distinct trends in camo and markings, etc....

[b]Focke-Wulf[/b]
D-9   210001 - 210300 (300) Sep-44 to Dez-44
D-9   210901 - 211200 (300) Nov-44 to Jan-45
D-9   211901 - 211950 ( 50) Jan-45
D-9   212101 - 212170 ( 70) Jan-45 to Feb-45
D-9   213081 - 213100 ( 20) Mar-45
D-11  220001 - 220017 ( 17) Feb-45 to Mar-45

[b]Roland[/b]
D-9   400201 - 400320 (120) Nov-44 to Feb-45
D-9   400601 - 400640 ( 40) Dez-44 to Jan-45
D-9   401351 - 401400 ( 50) Dez-44 to Feb-45
D-13  836001 - 836020 ( 20) Mar-45

[b]Mimetall, Erfurt[/b]
D-9   500001 - 500125 (125) Dez-44
D-9   500371 - 500440 ( 70) Dez-44 to Jan-45
D-9   500551 - 500700 (150) Jan-45 to Mar-45

[b]Fiesler[/b]
D-9   600121 - 600180 ( 60) Okt-44 to Dez-45
D-9   600301 - 600450 (150) Dez-44
D-9   600601 - 600670 ( 70) Dez-44 to Jan-45
D-9   600761 - 600810 ( 50) Jan-45
D-9   600981 - 601110 (130) Feb-45 to Mar-45 *
D-9   601221 - 601350 (130) Mar-45 *
D-9   601411 - 601480 ( 70) Mar-45
D-9   601801 - 601810 ( 10) Mar-45 to Apr-45
D-9   601961 - 601980 ( 20) Mar-45 to Apr-45

*D-9's sent to Daimler Benz for D-15 conversion
11-Mar-45  601071
12-Mar-45  601098,601093,601096,601075,601089,601102
13-Mar-45  601063,601079,601289,601104,601286
14-Mar-45  601099
16-Mar-45  601068
17-Mar-45  601080

Now in most cases, if you can find a/c a few numbers either side of your chosen work number, and they're both generally the same scheme, you'd be VERY safe using that scheme on your chosen werk number.

As in this case, I have the 'late' D-9, Yellow 15 from II./JG301 with Wk. Nr. 500666 (where does the 'late' Dora's start btw?), with my Eduard kit, could one assume that Yellow 13 with Wk. Nr. 210919 but from 7./JG301, had the same style in numerals as this Yellow 15?

Where does 'late' start, well thats a whole other debate; but generally the late D-9's have all the 'late' extra's - the most obvious is the blown hood, simplified camo, etc!

Now as for 7 Staffel, II./JG 301, I think you'd be pretty safe in assuming the Tactical code style would be the same. If it were me, I'd find as many '3' coded a/c in JG 301 as I could (Fw 190A's, F's and D's and some Bf 109's also) and compare the styles and decide from there! Unfortunately the Focke-Wulf built 210919 will have a very different camo to that of the MME built 500666.

Also, when it come to the camouflage etc., should one go with Black 1, but from IV./JG26, with Wk. Nr. 210003 which is closer in series? I have also noted, with these Eduard kits, that there are four different underwing styles of the....eeermmm...camouflage, how do you get the right one? Will put some pics up tomorrow, to show you what I mean..

OK, D-9 210919 7./JG301 is a Focke-Wulf built machine. I would base my colours and Fuselage layout on 210972 "Black 1+-" (RLM76/82/83), but the wing PATTERN I would base off 210917; 210972 doesnt have a typical pattern. Lower wing camoflage seems to be the W1 pattern at this point in production (solid RLM76 on all lower surfaces - no bare metal or wrapping around colours).

Lower wing camo on Fw 190D's is a fairly complex affair with a large variety of variations the deeper into the production numbers you go; luckily, the early Fw built a/c are quite simple and to be blunt, the RLM76/82/83 scheme is probably the most attractive (the scheme's using RLM81 can cause a lot of debate, due to the HUGE variations in that colour; ranging from Dark Earth Brown to almost a Brown-hued-Dark-Green). They all have the Black exhaust panels, and also to your advantage, his early in the 2109xx block had no tail mottling (if 210917 is any guide!)...

7./JG301 will also mean you'll want the standard Yellow/Red JG301 Rumpfband and being II.Gruppe, the rumpfband will have a red horizontal bar across it.

I'll draw up a 'Dan interpretation' if you want?


That help?


Dan