Law Against Faking Receipt of Military Medals is Unconstitutional

[mikewint]

Rabid, yes and yes again as long as it is a MORAL line. you are free to draw any moral lines you wish. it is when you(plural) decide that your moral line needs to be a LEGAL line 'cause those bad folks over there need to be stopped that we loose what we have worked so hard for in thei country: Freedom. Look at the mid-east where all those moral ayatollahs had the force of law behind them

 

[RabidAlien]

Yep. That's where the balance of powers comes into play. The government has to work to protect the people, but the people have to take a stand when the government tries something harmful or oppressive. We need to learn from the mistakes of other countries, before they happen here too...but I fear that where individuals may be able to, the masses will not. But....we gotta try. If we stop taking a stand because its unpopular or not easy to do, then we've all lost. Maybe not this year, or in ten years, but successive generations will get worse and worse. I don't want my daughter growing up in that.

 

[BombTaxi]

Mike and RA, you've just made the point much better than I have. Censoring free speech to prevent offense is dictatorship by another name. People say things that offend me on a more or less daily basis. I very probably do the smae to them. But we have to tackle the issue on two fronts. 99 times out of 100, it's pure ignorance and/or fear that drives offensive speech, and better education is the only way to tackle it. The other time, you just have to accept that the person in question (like this guy we're talking about) is a moron and move on. You can't legislate these people out of existence, and despite all the rights and freedoms we enjoy, none of us have the right to not be offended. When someone hurts you, you educate or retaliate - but you have to do it yourself, not depend on the govt to do it for you.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

My question is how is this free speech?

 

[mikewint]

Eagle, don't get to literal with the word speech, perhaps expression is a better word. you are free to express yourself in any way shape or form as long as your expression does not do PHYSICAL harm to another. you can claim to be a brain surgeon all you want until you start working on people. you can burn the flag but not your neighbors
i think we all need to be offended from time to time. skinheads offend the he** out of me but they have a right to state their views. moral christians folk hung blacks from lamp posts 'cause they looked at a white woman. morals and laws need far separation

 

[Colin1]

People say things that offend me on a more or less daily basis. I very probably do the same to them.
It's not the same, what you and your colleagues do to one another is inadvertent, what Alvarez does is premeditated

You can't legislate these people out of existence,
When the titles of medical doctor and police officer were protected, I don't recall any talk of any section of society being legislated out of existence as a result

When someone hurts you, you educate or retaliate - but you have to do it yourself, not depend on the govt to do it for you.

and if the same doctors and police officers had been left to it by the government, where do you think they would be right now? Where do you think we would be - I think this guy who's about to operate on me is a doctor but I'm just not sure...

It says something about how we regard each other if we think it's OK to trample everything an individual has achieved under the feet of the wannabees who in the vast majority of cases I would imagine, lack the traits to be the genuine article, simply because it 'doesn't hurt anybody'; someone more cynical might say 'doesn't hurt in a way that can be measured in fiscal loss'

 

[jamierd]

according to the US Census bureau there are presently 24.5 million veterans in the us add the 1.5million serving members and you have a very large group indeed who could all be offended by the actions of theses numbskulls .the way i see it the majority has to be protected i doubt very much if you could scrape up 100000 people who would want to pretend to be veterans or medal holders in the entire US.so surely the righta and priveleges of the 26million must come before the rights of the pathetic wannabes who didnt have the bottle to commit in the first place

 

[mikewint]

Colin1- alverez has done nothing to me. i am the same as i was before and will be the same after. his flapping mouth takes nothing from me. saying your a doc is one thing operating on someone is physical and considering some of these malpractice suits the pretend guy might not be all that bad.
Jamierd - you have it backwards. the majority does not need defending it is the minority that has to be protected from the majority. furthermore the rights and privileges of one group never overshadow or cancel the rights of another group.
the 26 million are serving precisely so that a moron like alveraz can declare to the world that he is a fool
when the majority moves to silence in minority we have barbed wire and ovens

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Eagle, don't get to literal with the word speech, perhaps expression is a better word. you are free to express yourself in any way shape or form as long as your expression does not do PHYSICAL harm to another. you can claim to be a brain surgeon all you want until you start working on people. you can burn the flag but not your neighbors

This we will never agree on, when it comes to assholes stealing the honor of our combat veterans.

 

[diddyriddick]

This we will never agree on....

Agreed, Eagle. We may simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed, Eagle. We may simply have to agree to disagree.

Such is life. I would still buy you a beer though.

 

[mikewint]

guys we totally agree that alveraz is a class A butt-wipe and a moron to boot. but such imbeciles diminish me not at all. i am secure in what i have done and been. remember when i returned it was the reverse. there was no honor in being a vet, even from other vets. we were drug-crazed babykillers. i could not allow their reality to become mine

 

[diddyriddick]

Such is life. I would still buy you a beer though.

Right back atcha!

 

[diddyriddick]

guys we totally agree that alveraz is a class A butt-wipe and a moron to boot. but such imbeciles diminish me not at all. i am secure in what i have done and been. remember when i returned it was the reverse. there was no honor in being a vet, even from other vets. we were drug-crazed babykillers. i could not allow their reality to become mine

There was always honor in being a vet, Mike. Even if some of your countrymen didn't recognize it.

 

[mikewint]

diddy, yes agreed but when everyone turns on you and you loose everything it is very difficult to feel that honor. remember even other vets turned on us. i never expected cheering crowds or ticker tape just the recognition that i had done my best in a very difficult situation. only my wife knew what i had done and been. my children were not told to protect them.
as i said before, it has taken me many years to come to terms with all of this

 

[Colin1]

Colin - alverez has done nothing to me. i am the same as i was before and will be the same after. his flapping mouth takes nothing from me

Mike
me neither, I feel nothing for him save a curious blend of amusement and pity
Returning to our doctors and police officers, I doubt the revelation of a phoney in their ranks rocks their day either, unless he/she was a member of the same practice or police precinct.

It still doesn't excuse the behaviour of Alvarez and co. If it's an offence to wear the uniform, awards and decorations of US servicemen and women over there, then they've got that right.

 

[mikewint]

colin1, i see from your sign in that you are in the UK. Do you have laws about people wearing military medals they are not intitled to?
i am not a lawyer but i believe free speech protects pretenders unless that pretense poses physical harm to another. saying you are a doctor is one thing examining patients is another.
i feel the same way as all of you feel about this cretin but i do not want to put a foot on that slippery slope. freedom is double edged. if you grant freedom then you have to actually allow freedom. and not just your version of what you think is correct. soon whatever isn't forbidden is manditory

 

[Colin1]

colin, i see from your sign in that you are in the UK. Do you have laws about people wearing military medals they are not intitled to?

Mike
yes, we do. I'm not 100% clear on how they work but then, I've never really had any desire to wear something that I didn't earn. As a matter of fact, I've never worn the ones that I did earn.

 

[BombTaxi]

Colin, that was a bit of a hatchet job on quoting me and ignores several things I have already said.

Firstly, I have stated at length and repeatedly, that the reason it is a crime to impersonate a police officer or a doctor is that SUCH IMPERSONATION LEADS TO A REAL AND IMMEDIATE RISK OF PHYSICAL INJURY TO OTHERS. While our lying politico was upsetting a few people, he posed absolutely NO physical risk to anyone. This is the point that freedom of speech revolves around - you lose your protection ONLY at the point that you expressive activity becomes an immediate physical danger to others.

My comment on 'legislating people out of existence' has been gloriously ripped out of it's context. My point, as I'm sure you know, is that even if you remove people's rights in the way the Stolen Valor Act does, you will still get sad losers falsely claiming military honours. After all, the SVA didn't deter this clown, did it? What is the point of removing a chunk of people's right's if the action has no deterrent value? It's knee-jerk politics of the very lowest kind.

 

[B-17engineer]

Ok so if he can lie about that why do people get fined and arrested for false advertisement? After all by peoples definition here thats freedom of speech.