Me 109, Spitfire, Zero or Mustang

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 6, 2005

The Spit would have taken on a Zero even in the beginning and had no problem. It was more maneuverable.

The Zero died off because the Japs lost the war!

The 109 did not die off. It was used well into the 1960's. Me-109G's were used by Finland until the 1950's. HavLv 33 still had them in 1954. Everheard of the S-99 and the S-199. They were Czech developments of the Bf-109. They were used by Isreal and the Czech republic into the 1950's. The Hispanno HA-1112 which was a Spanish varient of the 109 were used into the 1960's. The last ones being retired from service in November 1965.

CurzonDax · Nov 7, 2005

The Hispanno HA-1112 which was a Spanish varient of the 109 were used into the 1960's. The last ones being retired from service in November 1965.[/quote]

Many of these Ha-1112 and the Hispano version of the HE-111 were used in the movie The Battle of Britain. Also when I was in Spain as a teen (1980's), the 111s were still used as courier planes between bases and the HA-1112 were being sold to warbirders. For the longest time the Confederate Airforce, Planes of Fame and all the other "flying" aircraft museums were using the Ha-1112 in Luftwaffe livery in thier airshows. In fact if I remember my warbird fact correctly the Ha-1112 is the most common version of the 109 flying in airshows around the world. Just curious, these were Merlin powered right?

Also Mustangs were still being used by many Central American Airforces well into the 70's.

:{)

FLYBOYJ · Nov 7, 2005

CurzonDax said:
Also Mustangs were still being used by many Central American Airforces well into the 70's.

:{)

The Dominican Republic was the last P-51 operator. I think they got rid of theirs in the mid 1980s.

CurzonDax · Nov 7, 2005

The Dominican Republic was the last P-51 operator. I think they got rid of theirs in the mid 1980s.[/quote]

Oh yea! When I was living in PR, I went to my first airshow and remembered taking a pic next to a DR 'Stang. I remember thinking it was much cooler than the F-15 and 16 that it was next. Wow, blast from the past memory. I will dig out the pic and post it.

:{)

CurzonDax · Nov 7, 2005

As another footnote, it just occured to me, during the "soccer war" of 1969 between El Salvador and Honduras, Salvadoran P-51s and Corsairs clashed with Honduran planes of the same make. That must have been confusing!

:{)

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 7, 2005

Thats cool, would love to see the pic.

Gnomey · Nov 7, 2005

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Thats cool, would love to see the pic.

Me too.

CurzonDax · Nov 9, 2005

I will have to see if my mom still has them, but in the mean time check these out. DR 'stangs. For more info check out www.acig.com.

CurzonDax · Nov 9, 2005

Doh! Put the same attachment twice. Here's the other one!

CurzonDax · Nov 9, 2005

I just noticed the name of the last pic. Don't ask, I only work here.

:{)

CurzonDax · Nov 9, 2005

CurzonDax said:
I will have to see if my mom still has them, but in the mean time check these out. DR 'stangs. For more info check out www.acig.com.

Actually the site its www.acig.org. Sorry.

:{)

evangilder · Nov 9, 2005

the name of the jpg is a little odd for the pic!

CurzonDax · Nov 9, 2005

evangilder said:
the name of the jpg is a little odd for the pic!

Like I said, I only work here.

:{)

lesofprimus · Nov 9, 2005

Some fighter pilots would simply state:

"I am what I eat..."

book1182 · Nov 10, 2005

When it comes to these planes I don't think it is the plane that decided who would win but the pilots that flew them.

They only way a zero would win is if it had clipped wings for better roll, bigger engine put in i.e. 2000hp would be great, better armor add, and some new faster firing 20mm guns.

I see a lot of Me-109's getting the win. I think you all are wrong because the P-51 proved that it could rule the sky over Europe and anywhere else. Speed, a good turn radius, and pilot training is what I think made the P-51 a winner. I think the saying goes, "Speed is life, Go slow and your going to get hit."

evangilder · Nov 10, 2005

Clipping the wings would not have made much of a difference with the Zero. A more powerful engine would not have either. The ailerons were huge on the zero and above about 275, they are immovable. Plus a bigger engine and more armor adds weight, which would effect speed and manueverability. If the speed are 250 MPH or beow, the Zero is going to outmanuever almost anything.

Speed may be life, but once you start a turning dogfight, it doesn't really become a factor. Manueverability is the key there. It's more about energy management and making the best of your aircraft strengths while exploiting the enemy aircraft's weaknesses.

The P-51 was a good fighter, but to say it "ruled the sky" is a bit of a stretch. The 109 was an older aircraft that was still splashing Mustangs. Numerical superiority was what made the numbers good for the Mustang.

The Mustang was great in that it had the range to take the fight to the Germans.

trackend · Nov 10, 2005

Good post Eric it makes sense to me most of what I read in books talks of out manouvering your opponant unless your on the run in which case perfomance is nice to have.
As many guys have posted in the past, stick a top line pilot in a reasonable plane, and the novice in a superior plane is in a whole lot of trouble .

evangilder · Nov 10, 2005

Yep, piloting skills make a big difference. But get a great pilot in a great plane, and you have an ace in the making!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 10, 2005

book1182 said:
I see a lot of Me-109's getting the win. I think you all are wrong because the P-51 proved that it could rule the sky over Europe and anywhere else. Speed, a good turn radius, and pilot training is what I think made the P-51 a winner. I think the saying goes, "Speed is life, Go slow and your going to get hit."

Just another person that has fallen into the myth. Bf-109G's and K's could fly just as fast as a P-51D and turn almost as well. They could climb just as well also. The P-51D is famous because of propaganda and it is on the side that won the war. It was a good escort fighter but not the best fighter. It won because of numerical superiority. The P-47, P-38 and Spitfire were better aircraft than the P-51.

Hunter368 · Nov 10, 2005

Clearly for me it would of been the BF109.

Me 109, Spitfire, Zero or Mustang

Which plane would you fly in a dogfight?

Zeke/Zero

Me 109

Mustang

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