Mossie nf vs He 219 nf

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, seems everytime 'Mosquito' is mentioned, LG CC get an inferiority-complex and are compelled to start rabbiting-on about the bloody Lightning again...

 

[Lightning Guy]

I was just answering the questions asked, seemed a polite thing to do. And no one was saying anything about the Mossie v. Uhu anyway.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

topics never really stay on topic for many pages............

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, I understand that Lanc, but there does seem to be this 'Mossie vs Lightning' thing, where on one hand 'Lightnings' were the best thing since sliced [cheddar] cheese, to 'some', and Mossies were some kinda 'airborne-wheelbarrow...'- While I've always said the Lightning was a superb aircraft, they didn't have SFA to do with ETO Nightfighting, and only just scraped into the Pacific scene as a Nightfighter...This NF Topic was an integral part of the Battle for Europe, between what was hailed as the best of what the Germans had to combat the 'Mossie Menace', and this remarkable 'Wooden' Aircraft that played a huge part , defensively and offensively, against a numerically superior enemy [at the time]...I for one, are greatly interested in discussion about it, because it wasn't JUST the aircraft, but the crews, the electronics, the whole Battle's strategy tactics, that make it a Topic worthy of relative discussion...

 

[Erich]

here here ! and lanc you should be interested in the RAF that defended the Lanc bomber streams as well as the enemy who tried to knock it out of the skies over the Reich. Again a very little known aspect of the war with few books written about the subject compared to the Daylight energies by the US 8th air force both bomber and fighter........

E ~ 8)

 

[Lightning Guy]

I will agree with that. The technological side of the war after dark is absolutely fascinating.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i know about the electronic warfare used by the brittish bombers (suprise suprise) throught reading about it, and i never said i wasn't interested, just that, through no fault of my own, topics don't stay on topic for long.................

 

[Erich]

good for you Lanc but my young friend you make the choice whether you stay on topic or not as well as brad and CC. if it is all going to be fun and games here then start up a seperate thread instead of ranting off the topic header. That is only showing courtesty to everyone here including yourself. Since I did start this particular thread I would like if possible to stay on task.................please !

v/r

Erich ♪

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ok, my personall preaferance would be the mossie, proberly jst for the whole idea, it was an amazing aircraft by any standards, but even moreso as it was wooden..............

 

[Lightning Guy]

If the He 219 could have gotten its engine problems worked out it might well have proven to have been more than a match for the Mossie. As it is, the Mossie's Merlins provided the British plane with eye-watering performance and power to spare. That was probably the Mossie's biggest edge.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the mossie was just about the fastest thing up there untill '44............

 

[Gemhorse]

I think the Mossie's manoevrability had alot to do with it too, the weight difference between the He 219, at 33,000 lb AUW, to the Mossie's 20,000 odd lbs. - The Wooden construction obviously gave great benefit here, and even though they tried to 'copy' this construction in the Fw 154, they failed with the glues; - it did certainly show though, that the wooden aircraft was noticably quicker, top speed in the low 400's mph in the initial trials. - But even with the improved engines, the He 219 would still have been hard-pressed to get it over the Mosquito...

 

[Lightning Guy]

Well the Mossie couldn't have run flat out over the length of the entire mission. Does anyone know what the typical cruising speed of a Mossie was? The He 219 did shoot down some Mosquitoes so obviously it was capable of catching it. If a Mossie could be surprised while it was cruising, I imagine it would still be vulnerable.

 

[Gemhorse]

About 255 mph on average, but it's climb rate was twice the He 219's, and if they had warning, well...that was the game, wasn't it ? It's quite conceivable the Mosquitos they did shoot-down were Bomber or Pathfinder variants, but one thing's for sure, they were light , fast and manoevrable, something the He 219 had to work at....

 

[Lightning Guy]

They were bomber variants, but that was what the Luftwaffe was most concerned with shooting down. If they could knock out the Mossie pathfinders then the accuracy of the raid would drop considerably. 255 mph isn't all that fast and could be caught with only some difficulty.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they would obviously speed up on their bombing run, and i've seen higher cruising speeds than that.....................

 

[Lightning Guy]

I'm sure they did speed up on the bombing runs. The thing is, Berlin was a distant target, about 600 miles straight line. The Mossie couldn't run full-out there and back. Most fighters were only capable of sustaining maximum power (ie speed) for about 5-10min per mission. Whenever the Mossie was in a cruise, I imagine it would have still be vulnerable.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but bomber varients had a range of 2000+ miles (while cruising), so they have allot of extra fuel to burn, and whenever they got jumped, they would hit the throttle and would propberly be safe, they could just outrun the fighter with ease.........................

 

[Lightning Guy]

Engines burn up fuel a whole lot faster at high power (3-4 times faster or more) plus the fact that the engine itself generally can't take continuous high power for very long effectively limits the continuous speed of the Mossie or anything else. Yes the Mossie was very difficult to intercept and yes it could usually avoid an attacker by going to high power. However, it could be intercepted and going to high power is only an option if the attacker can be spotted or some form of warning given. As great as it was, combat in the Mossie was dangerous, just like it was in anything else.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but like you say, combat in anything is dangerous, truth is, piloting a mossie in late 42/43 was one of the safest places to be.....................