Nonskimmer
Captain
Yeah, what he said.Blackwatch said:
Mossie vs Ju88
- Thread starter helmitsmit
- Start date
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I wonder if there are any Radar sites still around to see, or atleast the base of them. I really doubt the actually antennas are still around but it would be neat.
Erich
the old Sage
the bases of ground radars can be found in Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway and Finland. will try to post some soon .......... there is afantastic web-site done up by a Doctoral freind with just the systems in mind. will post addy later
Interesting site...
http://www.baermann.biz/pauke/
http://www.baermann.biz/pauke/
Erich
the old Sage
the site is full of mistakes and should not even be considered, sorry V2
here is my friends site the best on the net..........
http://www.gyges.dk
it should be bookmarked and anyone and I mean anyone ever interested in radars both Luftwaffe and KM shold vist and chek through the many pages SLOWLY. It is indeed the finest done on the net period !
here is my friends site the best on the net..........
http://www.gyges.dk
it should be bookmarked and anyone and I mean anyone ever interested in radars both Luftwaffe and KM shold vist and chek through the many pages SLOWLY. It is indeed the finest done on the net period !
Yes very interesting, thanks. What are inaccuracies in the other site, erich?
Erich
the old Sage
will let ya kow this week depending just on how much he releases to his site. back in 99 I told him he had many things wrong and the site was closed down due to ?? the colour chips are pretty accurate but way too small. note the blue-white colour which faded to a grey white RLM 76 colour square chip. this is actually the right colour and none of this steel grey or light grey present in profiles.
Ah okay cool.
Erich
the old Sage
back at it. From another forum via N.P. this from Bertram a noted pilot in NJG 100 which performed dual roles with it's Ju 88G-6's aviation ops against RAF bombers and Soviet bombers, and biplane harrassment craft and the ugly night ground attack missions............
note this as I have heard it from other late war Germn nf pilots with their a/c. this is quite an important statement ...... read slowly
II. Gruppe appears to have spent most of its time shifting from field to field in the face of the Soviet advance - through Ost Preussen and Pommern the primary mission was no longer Fernnachtjagd, as the Gruppe increasingly flew Nachtschlachteinsaetze against Russian ground columns - although sorties were hampered by lack of fuel. According to his own account Bertram would fly on clear nights only, climb for altitude, shut his engines down and then glide in over the road convoys...
and vaporize Soviet MT with 2cm Minengeschoss- incendiary/API
note this as I have heard it from other late war Germn nf pilots with their a/c. this is quite an important statement ...... read slowly
II. Gruppe appears to have spent most of its time shifting from field to field in the face of the Soviet advance - through Ost Preussen and Pommern the primary mission was no longer Fernnachtjagd, as the Gruppe increasingly flew Nachtschlachteinsaetze against Russian ground columns - although sorties were hampered by lack of fuel. According to his own account Bertram would fly on clear nights only, climb for altitude, shut his engines down and then glide in over the road convoys...
and vaporize Soviet MT with 2cm Minengeschoss- incendiary/API
Attachments
evangilder
"Shooter"
Great info E. Can you do me a favor, my german is poor. If you could put a translation in paranthesis or something for the longer german words, it would help. I can figure out gruppe, but Fernnachtjagd and Nachtschlachteinsaetze I am having trouble with.
Erich
the old Sage
Eric: Ferne - long distance; so the term would mean long range/distance night fighting
Nachtschlachteinsätze = night ground attack operations or in this case missions.
cool huh. Never heard of a P-61 in the ETO doing that on night intrusions against ground targets. the Germans had to improvise as best they could being outnumbered
Nachtschlachteinsätze = night ground attack operations or in this case missions.
cool huh. Never heard of a P-61 in the ETO doing that on night intrusions against ground targets. the Germans had to improvise as best they could being outnumbered
evangilder
"Shooter"
Thanks, Erich. Considering what they had to work with, I would say they improvised pretty well.
Agreed, at the end of the war the Germans did very well with what they had left.evangilder said:
Germans have always been known for doing that.
Erich
the old Sage
more interesting late war thoughts from freind Rod M. much turth in these latter war months and movements
while shifting through reports of RAF Bomber Command RCM efforts during 1945, I have noticed on numerous occasions that at least one Nachtjagd W/T fighter control frequency, presumedly the actual frequency differed from night to night, could not be jammed because it was also used by Bomber Command (possibly for windfinding broadcasts etc).
What I am unsure of is whether these occurances were coincidental or whether there was a concerted effort to, firstly, establish the frequencies used by the bombers by the German "Y" service and then, secondly, to use the same frequencies for fighter control in the knowledge that they would be jammed.
Does anyone have any more documentary information on this?
It is interesting to see how many frequencies were jammed during a particular raid but to still see that the British "Y" service picked up a considerable amount of transmissions broadcast to the night fighters (i.e. if the British could hear it then the fighters could also, in psite of the jamming). My initial feeling from analysing this data is that during 1945, the factors that affected the ability of the Nachtjagd to mount a successful defence were:
1. The inability of the controllers to direct night fighters to the right place at the right time due the diversion measures and jamming. On quite a number of nights, up to 200 night fighters were airborne and pre-positioned but were never infiltrated in to a bomber stream in any numbers - thus resulting in a major expenditure of effort and fuel for only a small return. On many other nights, night fighters, when in a favourable position to infiltrate a bomber stream, were instead directed against a diversion while the real threat slipped by. On the occasions when the controllers did get it right, Bomber Command forces suffered casualty rates of between 5-24% but this was few and far between and usually only against one out of two or three seperate bomber streams operating during a particular night.
2. Bad weather conditions, lack of experienced crews and fuel rationing limiting the number of sorties that could be flown. In Jan-Feb 1945, the winter weather appears to have had a major limiting effect of Nachtjagd ops, with many Gruppen grounded. Allied to this is the number of nights that only experienced crews were used, sometimes to good effect but in such small numbers. For example, a look at the Abschussmeldungen for the entire first Gruppe of NJG2 confirms this - only two pilots claimed around 95% of the victories by this unit in 1945.
Often the lack of fuel is stated as a major cause for the limited success of the Nachtjagd during the final months of the war. Although a contributory factor, as stated in (2) above, I do not see it as the main reason...
while shifting through reports of RAF Bomber Command RCM efforts during 1945, I have noticed on numerous occasions that at least one Nachtjagd W/T fighter control frequency, presumedly the actual frequency differed from night to night, could not be jammed because it was also used by Bomber Command (possibly for windfinding broadcasts etc).
What I am unsure of is whether these occurances were coincidental or whether there was a concerted effort to, firstly, establish the frequencies used by the bombers by the German "Y" service and then, secondly, to use the same frequencies for fighter control in the knowledge that they would be jammed.
Does anyone have any more documentary information on this?
It is interesting to see how many frequencies were jammed during a particular raid but to still see that the British "Y" service picked up a considerable amount of transmissions broadcast to the night fighters (i.e. if the British could hear it then the fighters could also, in psite of the jamming). My initial feeling from analysing this data is that during 1945, the factors that affected the ability of the Nachtjagd to mount a successful defence were:
1. The inability of the controllers to direct night fighters to the right place at the right time due the diversion measures and jamming. On quite a number of nights, up to 200 night fighters were airborne and pre-positioned but were never infiltrated in to a bomber stream in any numbers - thus resulting in a major expenditure of effort and fuel for only a small return. On many other nights, night fighters, when in a favourable position to infiltrate a bomber stream, were instead directed against a diversion while the real threat slipped by. On the occasions when the controllers did get it right, Bomber Command forces suffered casualty rates of between 5-24% but this was few and far between and usually only against one out of two or three seperate bomber streams operating during a particular night.
2. Bad weather conditions, lack of experienced crews and fuel rationing limiting the number of sorties that could be flown. In Jan-Feb 1945, the winter weather appears to have had a major limiting effect of Nachtjagd ops, with many Gruppen grounded. Allied to this is the number of nights that only experienced crews were used, sometimes to good effect but in such small numbers. For example, a look at the Abschussmeldungen for the entire first Gruppe of NJG2 confirms this - only two pilots claimed around 95% of the victories by this unit in 1945.
Often the lack of fuel is stated as a major cause for the limited success of the Nachtjagd during the final months of the war. Although a contributory factor, as stated in (2) above, I do not see it as the main reason...
Erich
the old Sage
Erich
the old Sage
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Interesting pics and color scheme erich...
