Mustang crashes into crowd at Reno

[razor1uk]

The pilots head could be further back in the pit under the covered part of the canopy/hood, as they have a very much lowered 'roofline' and a semi reclined seat for high speed - no G-suit pressurisation on piston engined planes - he could be leaning forward for taxing take off purposes at that time before pulling his straps in once in the settled in the air prior to or during forming up behind the Pace Plane.
Search for pics of Dayglo Red's or Vodoo's cockpit, they have the same cockpit hoods and similar upper decking alterations.

 

[Mosshorn]

Well, the pilot appears to be missing in multiple photos from different angles. See below. And this fact supports, rather than refutes, that the picture in question is a non-altered image.

Just think for a moment--just a split second--about the tail wheel.

(1) If the tail wheel was photoshopped on (added) to the photo in question it would not appear in multiple videos and multiple photos that are not in question. Remember, the image [in question] was the very first publicized. Thus, it is not reasonable (or rational) to believe that someone would photoshop on a very strangely extended tail wheel AND THEN have every other photographer who took a picture of the same airplane do the very same thing.

(2) The skeptics theory holds that the vertical image was photoshopped from a horizontal picture of the airplane sitting parked. Look at the tire. The tire in the photo shows no evidence of compression--the weight of the tail of the airplane is not resting on the tire. Look at the picture at bottom. See how the tire is compressed?? It is not rational to believe that someone would take the time to seemlessly photoshop in a non-compressed tire. (How would someone get a picture of a non-compressed, extended tail wheel from a parked P-51 by the way??)

(3) Five (5) separate photo-manipulation analysis programs fail to detect ANY alterations to the image.

(4) On the other hand, look at the sky in the Difference of Gaussians, Sobel Analysis and Prewitt, not to mention, the Digital mapping and Inversion images. Note how both backgrounds (the sky) matches seemlessly between the two? It is readily apparent that both images were taken within a second of each other and from the same camera.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The pilots head could be further back in the pit under the covered part of the canopy/hood, as they have a very much lowered 'roofline' and a semi reclined seat for high speed - no G-suit pressurisation on piston engined planes - he could be leaning forward for taxing take off purposes at that time before pulling his straps in once in the settled in the air prior to or during forming up behind the Pace Plane.
Search for pics of Dayglo Red's or Vodoo's cockpit, they have the same cockpit hoods and similar upper decking alterations.

Sorry friend, not the case. Have you ever sat in a stock or modified P-51? I have and there is absolutely NO room for your head to move. Its a tight fit and unless a guillotine found its way into the cockpit, you are going to see something in that cockpit if some one is strapped in.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Well, the pilot appears to be missing in multiple photos from different angles. See below. And this fact supports, rather than refutes, that the picture in question is a non-altered image.

Just think for a moment--just a split second--about the tail wheel.

(1) If the tail wheel was photoshopped on (added) to the photo in question it would not appear in multiple videos and multiple photos that are not in question. Remember, the image [in question] was the very first publicized. Thus, it is not reasonable (or rational) to believe that someone would photoshop on a very strangely extended tail wheel AND THEN have every other photographer who took a picture of the same airplane do the very same thing.

(2) The skeptics theory holds that the vertical image was photoshopped from a horizontal picture of the airplane sitting parked. Look at the tire. The tire in the photo shows no evidence of compression--the weight of the tail of the airplane is not resting on the tire. Look at the picture at bottom. See how the tire is compressed?? It is not rational to believe that someone would take the time to seemlessly photoshop in a non-compressed tire. (How would someone get a picture of a non-compressed, extended tail wheel from a parked P-51 by the way??)

(3) Five (5) separate photo-manipulation analysis programs fail to detect ANY alterations to the image.

(4) On the other hand, look at the sky in the Difference of Gaussians, Sobel Analysis and Prewitt, not to mention, the Digital mapping and Inversion images. Note how both backgrounds (the sky) matches seemlessly between the two? It is readily apparent that both images were taken within a second of each other and from the same camera.

You're entitled to your opinion pal, I believe the photo was altered in haste to put something on the Internet that looked spectacular. I have been to the races from 2007 - 2010 and was actually a crew chief on a 2nd place aircraft in the jet class. I've worked on and sat in many of these warbirds and can tell you the fact that the pilot's torso and head is void in some of these pics raise great question in my mind. As far as the tire being compressed? I can tell you that depending on the tire, pressure rating and what the pilot and/ or crew chief whats to put into the tires, you may not see any compression when the aircraft is parked.

At a minimum those pics, if real were at least touched up. Again you're entitled to your opinion but in the future please refrain from making snide remarks about some of the members here who actually participate in these events and work on aircraft INCLUDING WARBIRDS for a living.

 

[Mosshorn]

Because the photograph of the exact same airplane taken before the crash (below) is conclusive evidence that regardless of the psi in the tail wheel tire, the tire clearly shows compression while on the ground. There is a flat spot of compression that appears while resting on the ground that does not appear while in the air...or in the photogragh in question.

Moss

 

[evangilder]

You can think what you want, but the evidence points to tampering. I never said a tail wheel was added. I said that it looked like the main wheels were removed from a photo of the aircraft parked. There are many folks who would like nothing more than to ground the warbirds forever, and I wouldn't put it past that crowd to try and pull a fast one.

 

[evangilder]

You can think what you want, but the evidence points to tampering. I never said a tail wheel was added. I said that it looked like the main wheels were removed from a photo of the aircraft parked. There are many folks who would like nothing more than to ground the warbirds forever, and I wouldn't put it past that crowd to try and pull a fast one. That inverted photo that is used shows no pixellation that the vertical shot shows. Case in point, the photos below are screen grabs at 400%! I don't see the edge pixellation.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Because the photograph of the exact same airplane taken before the crash (below) is conclusive evidence that regardless of the psi in the tail wheel tire, the tire clearly shows compression while on the ground. There is a flat spot of compression that appears while resting on the ground that does not appear while in the air...or in the photogragh in question.

Moss

The aircraft is in motion, the rubber and components of the tire will move, displace and heat up, a natural occurrence. Tell me Moss, how many aircraft tires have you serviced?

 

[evangilder]

Ambient temperature can also make a difference in tire pressures.

Okay, here is one for you that I did in about 15 minutes. Pretty convincing photo, eh? These are actually 2 photos taken 3 years apart with 2 different cameras with different megapixels. Background erase from the Mustang and then lay it down right over the clouds.

 

[razor1uk]

Flyboy, I am afraid the only military pane I have sat in, was an F-111 at RAF/USAAF Upper Heyford, at its closing air fate/display in 92' - and not being in the US, cannot get the chance to sit in a stock 51, let alone a souped up one - I was only thinking aloud as I know there's less head room compared to a normal bubble top stang.

As for pixelisation - are there corresponding photo's taken of similar angles, resolutions that are from a normal Non-digital camera? This could explain some pixelation differences depending in lighting, background shadings variations perhaps. But not all of them.

I feel that some pictures could've been stupidly doctored or tweeked to have some 'nice shots' required by all mainstream media hacks editors because its expected to have 'that dramatic/iconic shot'; so those unscruplous ones can pat themselves on the back and say this scoop is ours - before they hack some victims phone and have another line of coke.

Sorry evanglider, I don't mean you and your aviation media collegues - more the sell sell brigade of newpapers...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Flyboy, I am afraid the only military pane I have sat in, was an F-111 at RAF/USAAF Upper Heyford, at its closing air fate/display in 92' - and not being in the US, cannot get the chance to sit in a stock 51, let alone a souped up one - I was only thinking aloud as I know there's less head room compared to a normal bubble top stang.

No worries - I can also add that these aircraft have intertia reel restraints on the seat belts that lock you into the seat when the aircraft is loaded up. That should have pinned the pilot into the seat where either his head or torso was visible.

Agree about your "nice shots" comment and as we speak there's already rumblings about banning air racing. These turds just add fuel to the fire.

 

[barney]

Investigation into Air Races crash continues; 3 confirmed dead | TheUnion.com

Tim O'Brien, credited with both photographs, was on assignment for the Grassy Valley, Ca. paper and was covering the Reno event. So, I assume the photographs on the newspaper's website are as close to the originals as we are going to get.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks barney!

 

[GrauGeist]

By the way, good to see you're safe, Joe

 

[razor1uk]

Also, theres the possible pixelisation problem concerning the coolant vapour over pressure blow off when looking at rear fusalage shots.

As well as what sorts of cameras ( the specs of them) they used, if say a cheaper digital camera with poor Megapixel resolution/detailing/soft-hard~ware - might the camera make it look not so life like.
In some of the inverted pics, next to the 'missing tab', theres a crinkled/dented/contrasting area of different lighting about 3 - 6 inches further along the trailing edge towards that elevators tip.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

By the way, good to see you're safe, Joe

Thnx

 

[Hotntot]

Take a look at this footage from the other side of the airfield. The angle of the plane looks to be shallower in this footage than that shown in the Tim O'brien vertical still. It also appears to be banked over slightly to port side during decent. The vertical picture shows the wings to be level with the underside of the port wing clearly visible. And one question I have is - if both images were taken by the same photographer, would he be able to get a photograph of it inverted from the angle it's been taken and then a second one directly from port side?

Anyone with any answers/comments?



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaWB_7RGTQ4


Pic 1 showing the Mustang inverted, flying towards camera.

Pic 2 close up.

Fooage stills:


Pic3

Pic4

Pic5

Pic6

Pic7

 

[razor1uk]

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/reno-unlimited-gold-crash-30316.html#post821619

 

[Njaco]

Who cares?! People were killed and an airplane was lost. Why the persistant effort to prove a pic is real? Eric and Joe both have given reasons for their doubts and moved on - why can't everyone else? Its a tragedy, especially with us that love warbirds. Lets hope everyone injured recovers and that the families that have lost loved ones can be at peace.

Its one picture. Does it really matter?

 

[evangilder]

It does matter actually, Chris. If someone is sending doctored photos to the press, they are likely to be looked at by the investigators as well. It is a huge disservice to have evidence in an investigation that is tainted. What the families of the dead and injured, and the aviation community needs is the truth, and if doctored images are used to report and investigate, they won't get it. I am not a conspiracy nut, just someone who wants to see truth prevail.